Author Topic: Ecodiesel engine knock  (Read 15991 times)

Reply #30June 21, 2013, 06:18:21 am

VTPSD

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Re: Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2013, 06:18:21 am »
So if you chop throttle at speed in gear, still there or can you tell?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
yes very clearly, on the way down a steep hill you can shut the key right off and still hear it, does not change with load at all.

I used my stethascope on the vap pump and it seems pretty quiet. I think its a vane type, not a piston type.
-1991 audi 90 quattro with AHU tdi, r520's holset he211
-1990 audi 90 quattro, holset turbo, 11 second quarter mile demon

Reply #31June 21, 2013, 07:56:17 am

VTPSD

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Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2013, 07:56:17 am »
drove it all the way into work (35 miles) and still making the same old noise. I am wondering if the head isnt getting oil, or a passage feeding a lifter is blocked? Could intermediate shaft bearings somehow make a similar sound? The timing belt looked to be tracking very well and the IM shaft seemed to run just fine. Grasping at straws here.

 Kind of defeated at this point.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 08:10:27 am by VTPSD »
-1991 audi 90 quattro with AHU tdi, r520's holset he211
-1990 audi 90 quattro, holset turbo, 11 second quarter mile demon

Reply #32June 21, 2013, 05:53:31 pm

VTPSD

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Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2013, 05:53:31 pm »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAOAGDsZs7c&feature=youtu.be
video of said clatter, engine fully warmed up
-1991 audi 90 quattro with AHU tdi, r520's holset he211
-1990 audi 90 quattro, holset turbo, 11 second quarter mile demon

Reply #33June 21, 2013, 06:16:34 pm

TylerDurden

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Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2013, 06:16:34 pm »
Yeah, sounds like lifters... I'd give it a couple weeks and make another recording the same way. Play em side-by-side. 

Turbo sounds sweet.  ;D

Reply #34June 21, 2013, 07:33:41 pm

wolf_walker

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Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2013, 07:33:41 pm »
Sure does.

Did you eyeball the cam lobes good and check stems for funky wear?
It don't take a lot to make noise.

Low head oil pressure is possible, only on way to check.

What kinda oil?
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Reply #35June 24, 2013, 08:12:08 am

VTPSD

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Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2013, 08:12:08 am »
I didnt see any strange wear on the cam lobes, but i didnt check them besides a quick eyeball. Oil is 15w-40 rotella T. Maybe the oil pressure gauge will shed some light. I cant believe it would take this long for new lifters to quiet down.....
-1991 audi 90 quattro with AHU tdi, r520's holset he211
-1990 audi 90 quattro, holset turbo, 11 second quarter mile demon

Reply #36June 24, 2013, 08:52:11 am

bbob203

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Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2013, 08:52:11 am »
Mmo made my ticking lifters on my Eco go away... Your also sucking air into your ip looked like bubbles in your fuel lines. I would get different fuel filter from 86 Jetta w/o warmer aka aiR sucker.
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Reply #37June 24, 2013, 09:26:45 am

VTPSD

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Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2013, 09:26:45 am »
Mmo made my ticking lifters on my Eco go away... Your also sucking air into your ip looked like bubbles in your fuel lines. I would get different fuel filter from 86 Jetta w/o warmer aka aiR sucker.
im about to try something like that, even though it makes no sense that new lifters would need it. Maybe a little oil passage is blocked with something?
-1991 audi 90 quattro with AHU tdi, r520's holset he211
-1990 audi 90 quattro, holset turbo, 11 second quarter mile demon

Reply #38June 24, 2013, 09:36:16 am

TylerDurden

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Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2013, 09:36:16 am »
I put my lifters in 2200 miles ago (April 25). They are much quieter than when I installed them.

There might be one that occasionally gets louder, but when I installed the head gasket last "winter", I found one lifter completely collapsed... that valve or pocket may have some issue. 

I will be installing some gauges, so I can tell if the pressure is off. I also hear a brief loud clatter when turning into the street just after starting the engine (< 2min running), so maybe a baffle is missing or the pump is weak.

I can recommend inspecting the old lifters closely for any signs of abnormal wear - I probably should have done the guides (lifters had slight eccentric wear at the stem contact point), but I was eager to get the car back on the road and had no idea if the rest of the engine was worth the effort. (bought used)

I only changed the collapsed lifter when I had the head off. After a month of loud lifters, I presumed that some others were bad and changed them all in April, including the recent replacement. There was very little travel in any of the old lifter plungers, just slightly more than a new lifter. Now I can say, it is worth the time & $ to change them all and know that they are all ok, rather than just one known failed part.

Overall, I'd say the engine is not as quiet as my ex's TDI, but quieter and smoother running than it was before. Maybe it gets another 2-3 mpg, but hard to say if related to seasonal changes more than lifters.




Reply #39June 26, 2013, 08:20:21 am

VTPSD

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Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2013, 08:20:21 am »
A little update, In an act of desperation i poured in some marvel mystery oil, and i swear the ticking it got a bit quieter, although still there for sure.

I installed an oil pressure gauge and tapped into the head. It makes about 60psi when cold and driving, about 20psi cold idle, and maybe 5psi hot idle. Driving around at 50-55mph in 5th it is between 15-20psi. Is this normal readings when taking at the head? Seems a bit low. Of course the pint of MMO could be thinning it out some too.
-1991 audi 90 quattro with AHU tdi, r520's holset he211
-1990 audi 90 quattro, holset turbo, 11 second quarter mile demon

Reply #40June 26, 2013, 08:22:41 am

VTPSD

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Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2013, 08:22:41 am »
I should add that the low oil pressure light does not come on, but it does appear to work. Do oil pumps wear out on these things ever? its got 250k.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 08:43:46 am by VTPSD »
-1991 audi 90 quattro with AHU tdi, r520's holset he211
-1990 audi 90 quattro, holset turbo, 11 second quarter mile demon

Reply #41June 26, 2013, 01:32:45 pm

damac

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Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2013, 01:32:45 pm »
I have never had a 1.6 with numbers as low as yours.  On first cold start even at the head my pressure shoots up at idle until it warms up.  Never got even less than 10 hot idle at the head with my used engines, you are almost ready to trigger the alarm sensor on the head.

I believe the bently wants 29psi at 1900 rpm with sender in the oil filter flange.

My fresh engine in my 79 rabbit right now, td block, does that at idle hot.  Cold start at idle is 100+
1985 turbo diesel jetta

Reply #42June 26, 2013, 01:37:43 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2013, 01:37:43 pm »
A little update, In an act of desperation i poured in some marvel mystery oil, and i swear the ticking it got a bit quieter, although still there for sure.

I installed an oil pressure gauge and tapped into the head. It makes about 60psi when cold and driving, about 20psi cold idle, and maybe 5psi hot idle. Driving around at 50-55mph in 5th it is between 15-20psi. Is this normal readings when taking at the head? Seems a bit low. Of course the pint of MMO could be thinning it out some too.

Those numbers (especially the hot idle number) are a bit low and do indicate an engine with some decent wear for sure.  I think the hot idle pressure should be more like 25+PSI.  I could see some lifter ticking at hot idle if the pressure is that low.

Chances are you can drive it in the condition it is in for a good long time yet, but if you want to fix the issue the first place I'd be checking would be the intermediate shaft bearings.  They can flake away if the timing belt has ever been overtightened in the past and a bad one will cause the oil pressure at the head to drop quite a bit.  The oil pump itself is not usually an issue.
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #43June 26, 2013, 01:45:17 pm

VTPSD

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Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2013, 01:45:17 pm »
the strange thing is the lifter tick is completely consistent no matter what the oil pressure is.
At this point, I'm driving it until something gets bad. Its not worth chasing my tail on it any longer. I am going to move the gauge pickup to the port down by the filter just for giggles. Will probably swap oil out for 20w-50 and drive drive drive. Still a good chance the road salt will kill it before the engine blows.
-1991 audi 90 quattro with AHU tdi, r520's holset he211
-1990 audi 90 quattro, holset turbo, 11 second quarter mile demon

Reply #44June 26, 2013, 01:50:22 pm

VTPSD

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Re: Ecodiesel engine knock
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2013, 01:50:22 pm »
the head oil pressure should be 25psi hot? I was thinking it would be lower than that normally? My reasoning for that is the switch up there closes at .25 or .3 bar to illuminate the oil pressure light. That would be 3.6-4.3 psi before the light comes on. Anyways, its probably boned, oh well.
-1991 audi 90 quattro with AHU tdi, r520's holset he211
-1990 audi 90 quattro, holset turbo, 11 second quarter mile demon