Timing vs starting

[rodpaslow]

I think my problem has not been the timing starting it, it look like I screwed with the (90 pump) residual fuel and the book says if that is back off too much it will take a lot of cranking to start, simply because it has to build up fuel pressure inside the pump?  I don't know, but mine was backed right off. 

So I adjusted it and I can tell the difference when i step on the accelerator, the pump responds much sooner.  I didn't have time this morning to re-adjust the idle, it's idling around 1500 rpm warn.  I did screw out the idle screw at the back of the pump to get it down, as much as I could, I will back off the fuel screw a bit and see if that will fix it.

[damac]

I think my problem has not been the timing starting it, it look like I screwed with the (90 pump) residual fuel and the book says if that is back off too much it will take a lot of cranking to start, simply because it has to build up fuel pressure inside the pump?  I don't know, but mine was backed right off. 

So I adjusted it and I can tell the difference when i step on the accelerator, the pump responds much sooner.  I didn't have time this morning to re-adjust the idle, it's idling around 1500 rpm warn.  I did screw out the idle screw at the back of the pump to get it down, as much as I could, I will back off the fuel screw a bit and see if that will fix it.

I had something like that happen with my na pump bottom that I tried to turn into turbo pump with top.  Fuel screw didn't reach internals the same so I had to break the collar and start from fresh because stock setting and the car wouldn't even run

One tuning I was finally able to get the car to idle and start and I thought I was good by adjusting the idle to the tach.  I didn't notice anything was really wrong until I took my rabbit out for a test drive.  I got around but once in the street the poor car barely wanted  to move its own weight and I couldn't rev it out, etc.  Whoops turned around real quick   Then I slowly brought the fuel screw in until I got the power back I thought I was used to with stock settings.

[8v-of-fury]

Running is way easier and precise. Loosen the bolts so that the force needed to move the pump is a good shove or whack of a mallet (this is what I do).

That way, you can tap tap tap it this or that way depending on how it revs, the sound and how it idles.

The number means nothing.. I have told many this.. I haven't used a dial gauge in nearly two years and have many many many diesels on the road that have been timed by my hands, ears and butt-dyno. Four of which are in my drive-way and are daily driven.

I also don't believe in "time it by ear." I think that's how people end up with timing settings that are way out of line like 0.40 mm.

Hey man, if it runs well at an absurd timing number who are you to say it is wrong? lol.

[theman53]

Yeah, I think not having a number to go by is dumb. VW spent tons in engineering, but the one thing they could have skipped was the timing procedure??? Nah, even libby has a number with the timing light. If your pump is that worn that you can't get it running well without being in the range of .90-1.10mm send it out and have it redone. Even if you time by ear, I think it dumb not to have a number to go back to if you had to do the timing belt again someday.

[8v-of-fury]

All you old timer Gasoline/Carb guys never turned your distributor without the timing light on there to get the best performance? Have a guy in the seat on the verge of a brake burn and listen for ping?

Haha, The specs are for brand new parts. All of them. compression, injectors and the pump entirely.

[rodpaslow]

So I know you can go by "seat of pants", but without measuring where do you start.  My car warm, has very little to no 'clack', but seems like good power once on boost.(I think its around .97mm)  So do you tune it so it has a bit of "clack"?  I'm assuming you advance it to get the best "seat of pants" - in my case?  If you had too much timing you would go back and retard it.   

just as a question - what degree of timing is 1.00?  would it be between 5 and 10 BTDC?

[8v-of-fury]

So I know you can go by "seat of pants", but without measuring where do you start.

Wherever gets the engine sounding its best. I start my timing procedure (usually after pulling hte pump or a belt job) with the pump in the middle of its movement. Have a person work the key and throttle if need be to keep it idling and then I have my hand on the pump to adjust from there.

[rodpaslow]

Thanks, I will give that a try.   Last night I advanced it from it's "rest position" where it sat with no hand adjusting and I'm a long way advanced I and if definitely didn't start any better and lost power by quite a bit driving it.  I will try a bit retarded from it's resting position and see if that's any better.  Thanks for the advice.

I can see why the book is just a starting point, as fuel, pumps, injectors, turbos, etc will have all seem many miles or rebuilt and will not be the same as it was.

[8v-of-fury]

I can see why the book is just a starting point, as fuel, pumps, injectors, turbos, etc will have all seem many miles or rebuilt and will not be the same as it was.

And even then.. it is just a guide line that is rather vague and seemingly loose.

[homerj1]

Timed the ip in 1.6td today.  I advanced it a bit . Starts a lot quicker, no white smoke.

Although I wasn't completely sure how loud of a clang\ marbley noise it needs to make, just before I retard it a bit? And what does a well-timed diesel sound like?

Any sound clips?