Part throttle surging and wierd noise

[fatmobile]

 I probably already asked but.,, are all the mounting bolts tight,.. including the ones holding the i-pump brackets to the block?

[Rising]

I don't know...Are you sure you indexed the shaft correctly?

Well I believe so yes. But I guess I could try rotating a spline one way and another and see what happens. Can I do that without loosing all the springs again?

I probably already asked but.,, are all the mounting bolts tight,.. including the ones holding the i-pump brackets to the block?

That is a very good question. Haven't even thought about that. I'll check in the morning.

Could a loose tbelt cause this? I was watching the tbelt today and it seems like when it surges the t belt between the cam pulley and the tensioners seems to kinda flap some. Is that normal? Timing belt tension is confusing to me with the whole 60° thing...

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[TylerDurden]

also a lot of the model cars the diesels the 5th gear is specifically designed for 55mph, the designers back then didn't see the 55mph law being changed, if you have one of these trans, I have 2 of them, even going over 55 to 56mph there is a drop in fuel economy.

Melt those transmissions into a slug of metal and scrap them.  Do not let another experience a transmission designed for best economy at 55 mph.  Or only sell to old men that can't drive that fast anyway.

 

The 55 limit was universally despised and nobody thought it would stay.

The difference between an AVX and AGS/AOP/ACH  in 5th gear is only about 200rpm.

[burn_your_money]

It sounds like air to me, or a fuel restriction. Are you able to observe the feed and return line when it is bucking to see if there are any bubbles?

Can you hook it up to a jerry can and see how it runs?

[Rising]

My feed line is clear. I can rev it up and feel the pump take off even in neutral.

The return line is black.. I do have some clear PVC tubing around that I might be able to mock up for a test run... Air could make sense. If the pump top isn't sealing right could that cause air to enter at a certain rpm? I was having trouble with the new seal for the pump top. Seemed like it was too big. Spent a long time messing with it...

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[TylerDurden]

Not likely the top... that has something like positive 40-140psi. Air is usually drawn in at the inlet fitting and the mainshaft seal.

[burn_your_money]

There are 2 styles of top cover seals for these pumps. One has ribs, the other is similar to a flat o-ring. Did the new one match the old one?

This likely isn't your issue though, as this part of the pump is under pressure as the other Tyler stated.

[fatmobile]

I don't know...Are you sure you indexed the shaft correctly?

Well I believe so yes. But I guess I could try rotating a spline one way and another and see what happens. Can I do that without loosing all the springs again?

I probably already asked but.,, are all the mounting bolts tight,.. including the ones holding the i-pump brackets to the block?

That is a very good question. Haven't even thought about that. I'll check in the morning.

Could a loose tbelt cause this? I was watching the tbelt today and it seems like when it surges the t belt between the cam pulley and the tensioners seems to kinda flap some. Is that normal? Timing belt tension is confusing to me with the whole 60° thing...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

If the T-belt is loose it's not going to be loose between the cam and tensioner.
 Did you rotate the cam down instead of up when tensioning?

[Rising]

I don't know...Are you sure you indexed the shaft correctly?

Well I believe so yes. But I guess I could try rotating a spline one way and another and see what happens. Can I do that without loosing all the springs again?

I probably already asked but.,, are all the mounting bolts tight,.. including the ones holding the i-pump brackets to the block?

That is a very good question. Haven't even thought about that. I'll check in the morning.

Could a loose tbelt cause this? I was watching the tbelt today and it seems like when it surges the t belt between the cam pulley and the tensioners seems to kinda flap some. Is that normal? Timing belt tension is confusing to me with the whole 60° thing...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

If the T-belt is loose it's not going to be loose between the cam and tensioner.
 Did you rotate the cam down instead of up when tensioning?

I'm gonna go ahead and show my ignorance. I didn't know I was supposed to rotate the cam pulley while tensioning. Im almost positive I just left the can pulley loose cam lock in place cam pulley bolt just barely loose (after knocking pulley off and back on) IP pin in, rotated the crank a bit past TDC and then tensioned it back on to TDC, checked belt tension, rinse repeat until I was satisfied with timing and belt tension. Then snugged the cam pulley up, verified timing, removed locks, rotated by hand a few times and started it up. . .

Did I miss a step?

The old pump gasket didn't have as defined of ribs but it definitely had ribs... The new one had a lot thicker ribs it seemed. I figured that was just new verse old shrunken rubber.

Been a busy week. Hoping to check return line sometime tomorrow.

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[8v-of-fury!]

If the method you followed had the cam lock, pump lock and crank shaft at TDC all together after rotating by hand.. You did it correctly.

[damac]

you want the round black seal in the kit for the pump lid, not the one with ribs.

the other poster is talking about which way you set the tensioner.  as you face it one the side of the engine its supposed to be swung to the left and up.

also not sure if I'm reading you right on your timing job but how can you set tensioner to get all the belt slack out with the injection pump lock in?  thats not what the book says to do.

i'm not smart enough to know what possible effects that may have if you say your timing marks are still lining up.  there are people posting about doing mark and prey methods and driving their car off into the sunset

[Rising]

If the method you followed had the cam lock, pump lock and crank shaft at TDC all together after rotating by hand.. You did it correctly.

Yep! Rotated through 2 or 3 times to double triple check. It all lines up.

you want the round black seal in the kit for the pump lid, not the one with ribs.

the other poster is talking about which way you set the tensioner.  as you face it one the side of the engine its supposed to be swung to the left and up.

also not sure if I'm reading you right on your timing job but how can you set tensioner to get all the belt slack out with the injection pump lock in?  thats not what the book says to do.

i'm not smart enough to know what possible effects that may have if you say your timing marks are still lining up.  there are people posting about doing mark and prey methods and driving their car off into the sunset

Well the only seal I remember seeing that was shaped like the pump top seal was the one with ribs. Are you saying I should've used one of the circular seals?

Yeah I'm still not sure exactly what the proper method is... But I've changed several timing belts this way and never had a problem with timing. . . unless of course this is my first :-p

The problem seems to be getting better slowly by itself. Which is confusing. It started as a power surge. Then went to off and on power. Now its getting less noticible (or I'm just driving so as to completely avoid it..)

Gonna run the pump from a jerry can and post a video for you guys as soon as I can get a break on my other cars...

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[damac]

Don't use the ribbed one, use the black round one.  Use vaseline and form it into place.

Also again and the timing steps, that is what the bently says to do so I would imagine you aren't getting rid of all the slack of the belt by pinning the pump wile tensioning.  I don't even know what that could do if it isn't tight on the intermediate shaft, etc. might be more likely to skip a tooth.

As far as your pump I always yank good stock runners to clean everything and reseal before service.  Maybe you should do that and revert back to stock parts with stock fueling and get your car running well before messing with things.

I have got the surging thing with increasing fuel, never messed with the governor.

I have seen a pump so gooed up before that it wouldn't start without pedal and was jumpy and very slow reacting.  Thank you veggie experiment

I tried diesel purge system on a couple cars that went down during an incident and this did not clean all the scale and floating debris inside the pump.  It ended up taking 2 full day doses of atf to get those suckers to run again.

Broke those pumps down and still had to clean, especially the vane area.

[Rising]

Weird I thought I already posted a response to this... Must've not come through.

Anyway. I found the problem. Oddly enough I went to adjust the timing (been playing with timing setting since I got my EGT ) and the bottom bolt behind the crankshaft pulley wouldn't tighten back down. Eventually it just came all the way out of its little bracket thing in one long piece. Weird. So I need to find a new bracket timing do hickey or find a way to get a bolt down there... But I'm certain that was what was causing the surging issue. So The gov mod was not to blame! Other than perhaps my botched pump installation by not using fresh hardware.

Anyway I let the pump sit in atf overnight anyway since I had the opportunity and checked for bubbles with a clear return line. No bubbles and no leaks. I think this pump is still solid.

I'm still confused about The pump too gasket though. The previous gasket was a ribbed one like the new one. But you are saying I should've used an oring shaped into the slot. Did the previous owner use a wrong gasket too? Or what am I missing? Its sealing fine do I really need to pull it apart and replace it?

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[damac]

I guess do what works.

Years ago when I tried to reseal my first pump I tried to use that ribbed seal because of the shape.  But I recall it tweaking the pump lid so its the only reason I wondered if something was wrong.

Somebody told me to use the round one with vaseline and I have done so with 4+ pumps that are still in service and none of those pumps have leaked a drop.

Also on my used runners that I have pulled apart the seal was not ribbed.