AAZ valve cover leakage

[BoostedOne]

Quick question...
On the AAZ valve covers do you do anything special on installation?
I just got a brand new 1.9 install finally finished and leaked out almost all 5 quarts in 15 miles.  I had to get someone to deliver me oil to get home.  Unfortunately everything is so clean, its hard to say exactly where its coming from, especially when the oil is still clear.
But it is wet up top around the base of the valve cover on the head, top of cover is dry...
I took the timing cover off, its got a little oil residue but i think that may have gotten there from running through a vent hole and around the seam, not from the cam seal because the back of the cam gear appears dry.


So anyhow back to the question at hand..what's your install routine on the valve cover? I approached it like an ABA or other 8v with ABA gasket.  Put a little dab of ultra black on the corners where #1 cam cap meets the head, liad the gasket on lining the rubber tits with the holes in the head, and bolted the cover on.
All the rubbers at the 3 hold down studs are new. Gasket is new.   Doesn't leak from the 3 bolt holes...

I guess i am wondering if the lack of perimeter bolting makes these more leak prone and require rtv around the perimeter of the cover?  I hate using the stuff(seems hokey if not required)

Also is there anything special about the concave washers under the nuts?  Although i got all new gaskets,  those washers listed for like 13$ each so i skipped them and just using large flange washers and flange nuts

Thanks

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[wolf_walker]

Mine still leaks a bit, but not that bad.

As I recall, the three hold downs on mine needed a washer in addition to the rounded cup one.
I'm not sure I had the right hardware to start with as far as the nut, but I put that stuff on minus
the valve cover and saw where it was bottoming out and not pressing on the valve cover hardly at all.
So I washer'd it till I could actually snug it up.  And used a paper thin skim of RTV on the flats,
and the usual dab where you mentioned.  It still leaks a bit.  And it isn't warped or gouged.
I call it typical cheap VW BS myself.
In 20K you'll have three or four other weeps to bother you.

Be careful of those IMS and cam seals, it's sometimes hard to tell they are leaking unless you look
RIGHT AT the block/head where they are mounted.

[vanbcguy]

Ironically the push towards center bolt valve covers through the 90s was largely done to reduce oil leaks. GM tried the same thing with their V8 engines...

The comments above about the hardware definitely would be something I'd be checking. I've had more than a few projects where something was bottoming out and "appearing" tight as a result.

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[BoostedOne]

I have some extra bolts with washers built in for a neon.   I can cut the heads off the bolts to get the washers.   They are bigger, thicker, and concave so it should keep the rubbers pressed better. 
Mainly wanted to confirm this wasnt typical when doing a minimum of rtv.  Didn't want to mess around with the hardware for days only to find everyone just loads em up with rtv.  Thanks!

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[wolf_walker]

Trouble with valve covers made of stamped steel is they warp, I think that was the thing center bolts were supposed to fix.

Mercedes and others have had this fixed for decades, use a ridged cast valve cover and a rubber gasket in a channel. Perimeter bolts are fine then.
VW the Chevy of euro diesels. :-)

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[CrazyAndy]

Yes it's a shame they didn't have channeled gaskets back in the 80's/90's for these cars; the earliest is the '98 passat gasser IIRC.

Thinking, would a G60 cover be better as it's cast and therefore doesn't warp as easily?  Or is that why people mount those covers in the first place?  Yes I know they can't go on an AAZ without drilling.

[wolf_walker]

Never had one but I assume the G60 piece is less leak prone on an old motor.
I had decent luck without all sorts of chemicals and rail straitening and BS
using the ABA gasket on the old 1.6's.  The cork gaskets were, well, just like
a SBC... 

[8v-of-fury]

You were a huge help in my Body Shop thread.. But I gots nothing haa. Its a very simple gasket design.. but I do find that these damn Volkswagen's will leak regardless of what you do. They don't give a damn about you, or your drive-way lol.

I have a finicky leaker of an AAZ right now, but I don't pay it no mind. The one with the least leaks is the 446,000km 1.6TD.. the most is the AAZ and TDI..

I lean towards it not being squished right, and then if that doesn't work.. RTV does exist for this very reason and it is very good at what it does .

[wolf_walker]

First motor I ever rebuilt when I was a kid was a 230 ford six, had a *** of a long leaky valve cover. Indian Head gasket shellac was the only thing stopped it. But it took a rubber mallet and blocks of wood to get it off again. That stuff was rough. Ahh, the good old days.

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[BoostedOne]

Thanks yall..
Indian Head.. LOL.. I still have a bottle of that.. Its great stuff for paper gaskets!
I can understand SOME leakage, but I got the engine first fired on Friday night, and just idled it a bit in the shop.. Saturday I idled it some more.. I actually saw some fluid on the floor, but with all the work that went on and diesel fuel that slopped and hydraulic fluid from filling and bleeding the clutch, I didnt think too much of it.  Then finally Saturday  I got to drive it and after about 10 miles(country road, no stops) I noticed that every time I went around a corner the oil buzzer went off and the gauge flickered..

Thank God my girlfriend was just fixing to go to work and was heading by that way.. So I relaxed on the side of the road and had her deliver me some oil on her way to work..

Got it home washed down the engine compartment with simple green and a hose, and ran to the store for a case of brake clean and 2 more jugs of oil while I waited for it to dry.  Long story short, gave it a good douche, jacked it up and fired it up.  Noticed it was actually seeping a little from the oil filter to oil cooler interface, strange because the filter was TIGHT..  When I took the filter off I found there was a metal burr laying right across the gasket of the filter, and there was a gall line on the oil cooler.. The oil cooler was off a 1.8T block I have been moving around  from 3 different shops over the past 10 years or so, so I think maybe it got nicked down there or something and I didn't notice, and when I put the filter on it grabbed the burr and smeared it.. I dressed the area by hand with some 80 grit to smooth it, and reinstalled the filter.. 

On the valve cover..  Im going to order the correct remaining parts.  Guess I assumed that with some washers the grommets would apply enough pressure.  But (granted, I have never seen what a real one looks like) I guess I am now thinking that the cup shape keeps the grommet packed to load the cover better, where as with just a standard washer you soon run out of threads and the grommet is allowed to deform and its not really loading the cover up too much..

In the mean time I had some 1/2" washers(big enough hole to clear the corners of the stud bolts) and an OD a little larger than the grommet, which allowed me to compress the grommet alot harder even though it still is free to grow outward..Then put 10mm washers on top of the 1/2" washer so I could tigten the nut.. Result, doesn't seem to be leaking.. I can still smell oil, but there was a ton of it that got on the exhaust manifold..  So far I put about 100 miles on it.

8V I hear ya, but I actually hope I can manage to get it to quit leaking.. I don't really mind it dripping a few drops a day, because I park on grass(no driveway), but damn the smell gets old.

[BoostedOne]

Oh yeah, regarding a G60 valve cover(or any other early 8V valve cover, but may apply to ABA covers too, cant remember)..
It takes more than just drilling the head flange for the perimeter bolts to use an early cover.  Since my 1.6 had a color matched valve cover painted with the same basecoat/clear coat as the rest of the body, it would have been nice to use..  Then when I noticed my 1.9 long block not only didn't have a valve cover, it didn't have the special studs, I didn't have a gasket, or the grommets or the washers, or the nuts, or the nut covers..
Reusing an older valve cover seemed really really attractive at that point..  So attractive I went and grabbed the drill bits, a tap and a 1.6 valve cover to lay out the holes..  Thats when I realized the profile of the head is different..
Look at a 1.6, the flange is thicker in the center between cyl 2 and 3 and thinner everywhere else.. Look at a 1.9 IDI head.. its entire flange is as thick as the thick part of the early head.. SO in addition to the drilling, you'd have to grind the head flange thinner so the lip of the cover will pass..

That was getting into too much hacking for me.