Author Topic: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor  (Read 15741 times)

Reply #15March 06, 2013, 01:12:52 pm

bbob203

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2013, 01:12:52 pm »
lucas.. maybe you need bigger turbo on tdi?  :)
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Reply #16March 06, 2013, 04:41:18 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2013, 04:41:18 pm »
Haha, a stage 2 and .216's does NOT by any means even come close to the performance mods done to the 1.6. Dollar for dollar? Sure. But who cheaps out on a power build?

If you did all the same mods to the ALH as you have done to the 1.6, you will be in to it for more money.. but you will have WAY more engine. My M-TDI is a stock AHU with only the 11mm pump added. DAMN. I can slip the brand new 210mm clutch in 5th when the boost hits (1700). I have done no mods to it, other than the turned up 11mm and 15psi.. Your stage 2 will not move as much fuel as I am moving, its still a 10mm pump after all.

I have .216's, a T3, and an AWIC planned.. I will have no traction in 1-3 and slip the clutch for all of 4 and 5.

Basically though, I get what you are saying dollar for dollar.

If you want the most reliable torque.. M-TDI 1Z/AHU/ALH

Reply #17March 06, 2013, 09:46:22 pm

theman53

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2013, 09:46:22 pm »
I could dig up the reciepts but it isn't worth it to me. I know I had 300 in the stage 2 and another 250 in the flashzilla, then the nozzles were a few hundo. The Giles pump was 700 or 650 USD back when the FED *END THE FED- Ron Paul* hadn't devalued our currency to the point it is now. Same pump now would cost over 1,000 USD. I had to have my head rebuilt, if it were running I wouldn't have but I had 500 in the rebuild of the head 150.00 of it was porting and the only "performance" part of it. Most all other things were not "performance" or I built them myself. OR it was stuff like the trans, suspension, body work, poly bushings and sway bars, rims, etc. that have no bearing on the power the engine makes. So while I do have a mint in the MK2 the actual go fast parts were under 2,000.00 USD....this feels like I am having the same conversation over and over, my wife wants me to sell the thing and everytime I work on it I go through this.

Reply #18March 06, 2013, 10:17:14 pm

CRSMP5

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2013, 10:17:14 pm »
if i had 3k to blow on each of my cars.. all 4 would be a m... by the time of tranny/clutch so on.. its a 3k endever.. if you start off with something not needing tons of work..

my m..

600 for car.. bad pump.. po decided to screw with it.. i figured out pump 6 teeth off, cam off.. carbon knocked off where hit pistons...

1k rebuild parts w injectros so on..

175 in my ic, and new 100mm 16v rocco axles..

pump.. if id had to pay.. 5 bills.. but tradded things..

ic pipes/couplers/egt gauge so on.. add 500.. that little crap builds up fast..

clutch = $$..

the bad alt 200+

why 3k.. how many 600$ tdi out there

Reply #19March 06, 2013, 10:34:07 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2013, 10:34:07 pm »
why 3k.. how many 600$ tdi out there

I made profit on my M-TDI swap.. ? Bwahah

Reply #20March 06, 2013, 10:47:01 pm

CRSMP5

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2013, 10:47:01 pm »
me be so far ahead on my next diesel engine im going to blow it up... on purpose..  :P  once i see its destruction.. and know how it worked.. that idi set up long block ~500ish.. rebuilt with new parts.. aka used hard parts with new wear parts.. and with real pump, turbo i expect to spank my m with the prop and nos... and it cost so little to fix the i blew it up.. my m.. no.. i break it.. expect 1k right now..

Reply #21March 06, 2013, 10:48:40 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2013, 10:48:40 pm »
I am searching locally for the next cheap high miles TDI to pop up so I can swap out the 1.6 TD in the 88.

Reply #22March 06, 2013, 10:59:18 pm

CRSMP5

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2013, 10:59:18 pm »
that was rotfloor one in my eyes... they want 1500+ for rot floor.. bad pump tdi here... with 250k+ so know valve guides gone.. so head rebuild for all that too..

hill folks tall block bare was 6 bills...

my screwed up on.. 6 bills with 02a conversion.. stuff i did sell off it so on... but hell realism is expect 3k for a get going m build between pump, engine, tranny, mounts so on..

my 81 coupe i have 550$ in.. including used head and all when it dropped a valve... 6th winter.. car = winner... last year though.. 2x4 holding seat in place as bottom clip really bad now..

that engine will sit for something of mine till used.. proto engine will be more fun.. and less value then the coupes na.. if the seat could be held in place on the coupe.. proto would blow in it this season... but too unsafe so thinking jackrabbit in 18 or so months..

Reply #23March 20, 2013, 06:01:33 pm

carrizog60

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2013, 06:01:33 pm »
CRSMP5,want to share a bit more on what you are testing on IDI engines?
i am on the IDI side,for most guys the tdi benefits are not in the engine but in the turbo,gearbox and cooling upgrades.
i have a 1.9td with vnt20,cyp gearbox and i dont feel the need for a tdi...for sure!
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Reply #24March 20, 2013, 06:28:42 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2013, 06:28:42 pm »
For most guys the tdi benefits are not in the engine but in the turbo,gearbox and cooling upgrades.

I disagree strongly. I have two 1.9L powered mk1's in my driveway that with drivers weight differences weigh just over 100lbs apart. One is a 1.9L 9mm TD and the other a 1.9L 11mm TDI. Both fully mechanical and both with the same k03 turbo. Both running 14-15psi non inter-cooled. Both with 020 trannies, TD is a 7A and the TDI has an ACN.

Even with taller ring and pinion and wider gearing, I still rape the TD in the TDI by a long shot. Nothing is different except for IDI vs. TDI and pump plunger size. I have my 9mm turned all the way up, and the 11mm turned way down (no inter cooler and stock injectors)

I feel the TD has the ability to move more fuel than the TDI stock because its injectors are way over sized, and are substantially bigger than the TDI's stock .184".

The TDI can match the TD in power with 15% less fueling, same fueling? It will have more power. I don't lnow of many AAZ or 1.6 TD's making 200 reliable horsepower with bolt ons either. If anything I'd choose the TDI motor just because it is the next gen and is a more reliable and robust engine platform.

Just my $.02

Reply #25March 20, 2013, 10:19:37 pm

theman53

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2013, 10:19:37 pm »
The difference in gearing would be a huge benefit. Speaking in truck terms the TDI would have 4.11 gears compared to 3.73 gears in the IDI. With that jump the TDI should have more "snap". The 11mm pump would make a huge difference too.

Reply #26March 20, 2013, 10:39:03 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2013, 10:39:03 pm »
You are backwards on the gearing. The IDI has 3.94 gears and my TDI has the 3.67, the IDI should have the more "snap".

The 11mm would make a huge difference if it were pumping to potential yes, but it is severely turned down. Like my max fuel screw is nearly turned all the way out  :o. Whereas the 9mm is turned all the way up on all settings.

Basically though at stock settings for both AAZ and the 1Z/AHU they are very similar but are worlds apart in the torque department.

66 kilowatts (90 PS; 89 bhp) @ 4,000 rpm; 202 newton metres (149 lbf·ft) @ 1,900 rpm — 1Z, AHU

55 kilowatts (75 PS; 74 bhp) @ 4,200 rpm; 150 newton metres (111 lbf·ft) @ 2,000 rpm — AAZ

Reply #27March 20, 2013, 10:57:33 pm

CRSMP5

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2013, 10:57:33 pm »
the idi thing.. honestly dont wanna put it on the web as if it works or does not work i do not wanna be a arss..

back in 91-93 someone tried something.. it was a fail.. pre 1.9 stuff here.. when i heard of it in 94ish i mentoned a way it could be made to work.. and well still never tested...

i trully think it will work.. till tried who knows.. but i have guni parts to try it out now.. i have a car to test it in.. just be a year..

so if you want ill let you pick my brain via pm but i will not tell my parts or what ive done.. but if you can follow how i talk an dsuch.. and you know anything abt vw 4 bangers from 75-99.5 with pre 1.9 diesel info.. stuff no exist.. your kinda stuck with what can be done..

1.5 or 1.6 head.. hydro vs no.. so 4 head options..

blocks..

1.5, 1.6 1.7 1.8 and 2.0

since aaz came out.. it resolved a few issues that my idea did not work till that point.. and skirts me way round garenteed fail.. with added this should be good feelings..


Reply #28March 20, 2013, 10:59:17 pm

theman53

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2013, 10:59:17 pm »
It still travels 11mm no?

Sorry I read it as the TD had the 3.67

Reply #29March 20, 2013, 11:01:12 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Torn between mtdi and 1.6/1.9 Frankenmotor
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2013, 11:01:12 pm »
It still travels 11mm no?

No sir, that number is the size of the diameter of the plunger. It travels roughly 3.14mm in the AAZ, but I did not measure my rover pumps cam plate lift when I had it apart. As well as 2.26mm of plunger movement for the 1.6 TD.

 

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