Author Topic: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build  (Read 95265 times)

Reply #45June 24, 2013, 07:17:09 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2013, 07:17:09 pm »
It is true they are out there, but who has the patience to look and put it all together? ;).

Sooooo much more fun than a muscle car, and for a fraction of the cost eh? lol!

I stare at a computer all day for work so spending some time reading about this stuff comes naturally... Perfect for long calls where I don't have much to do but I can't really be productive in the meantime.

And yeah definitely a fraction of the cost though as the ideas keep coming that "fraction" keeps getting bigger and bigger.  At least I know the final result will be a vehicle that's uber cheap to drive (and with amazingly cheap insurance!!)
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #46June 24, 2013, 08:15:38 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2013, 08:15:38 pm »
OK, on the TPS side...

Right now the best option I seem to have is to try using one of these:



It's a TPS off an early TPI GM (you can find 'em by searching for TPS111) so again fairly cheap and fairly commonly available.  I need to do some sorting around how I'd make a bracket for it but I think I could do something similar to the early Dodge (Cummins) VE pumps where they mount the bracket to the LDA.  This TPS is spring-loaded internally so it just needs to be mounted so the pump accelerator arm pushes against it.  The tough part is sorting whether the range of motion is appropriate or not, I'm not entirely sure how I'd figure that out without having both the pump and the TPS in hand.  As long as the range of motion is greater than or equal to the pump arm it should work fine.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 09:05:04 pm by vanbcguy »
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #47June 24, 2013, 08:29:37 pm

theman53

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Reply #48June 24, 2013, 09:10:48 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2013, 09:10:48 pm »
Another issue I see with servos is the amount of pull vs. expense vs. speed of movement.  Consider the vac diaphragm is approx 3" in diameter x 14 psi.  3^2 x pi x 14lbs/square inch = 395 lbs of force.  Once you do the force conversion on the servos available, the ones that can generate/maintain that kind of force are very expensive or very slow or both.  Less than that force, you will have increased occurrence of vanes sticking.     

Reply #49June 24, 2013, 09:53:59 pm

theman53

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Re: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2013, 09:53:59 pm »
Yep. That is kind of why Lord V and I gave up. I figured by the time we got everything invested it would be more than 5x the cost of a manual controller copied from you. Also the ones I looked at the ones that were reasonable couldn't handle under hood temps consistently. I really hope that you guys come up with something. I would like to have something for the MTDI jeep and its 2256.

Reply #50June 24, 2013, 10:35:21 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build
« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2013, 10:35:21 pm »
While the boost control solenoid "duty cycle" method of regulating vacuum does seem a bit strange to me, it is nearly universal across the whole auto industry.  I figure all those engineers must have decided it was the best available at least at the time.  Some of the newer turbos use a servo + position sensor which allows more direct control (plus the computer is aware of the actual setting, taking care of issues around adjustment of VNT actuator arms and things).  There is no reason an Arduino couldn't control one of those really but those turbos tend to be a bit more expensive.  Given that we've got a good vacuum supply on our engines already and the solenoids are so simple I'm definitely going that route.

I did some messing around looking at my IDI pump - I think the TPS I linked to above will probably work just fine.  They're under $30 at Autozone too which is just perfect.  The early TPI one I was originally thinking of goes the wrong way, this one (TPS111) will go the same direction as the pump arm.  These are SUPER common - lots of Chevy/GMC trucks from 1986 through 1991 use them.

The other TPS sensors listed above need some sort of interface between the throttle arm and the sensor itself which seems like a pain to sort.  There is a factory piece for the VE Cummins engines but it seems to be very expensive and hard to find, not to mention the bracket to hold the TPS itself is apparently made out of unobtanium.  I figured the little arm would be much easier to deal with - just measure the same distance from the centerline of the pump arm and then attach a little angle bracket.  I think I can prototype a bracket to hold the sensor itself pretty easily out of sheetmetal too.
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #51July 03, 2013, 02:21:05 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build
« Reply #51 on: July 03, 2013, 02:21:05 pm »
My Arduino showed up today!



Little bag on the right is the prototyping board.  I'm getting really excited about this controller!!

Now if only Whitbread over on TDIClub would respond to his PMs...... Then I could order my turbo!
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #52July 05, 2013, 04:55:17 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build
« Reply #52 on: July 05, 2013, 04:55:17 pm »
MAP sensor arrived today...



This one is a 5.5 bar - it is totally overkill for what I am doing but it was available as an engineering sample, so....

In the end I will only be using 1/3 of its range.  It should still have about the same resolution as the stock VW system given that the Arduino has a 10-bit ADC versus the 8-bit that VW appears to use in their ECUs so I think it will probably be fine though a 3-bar would be a more suitable choice.  Who knows, maybe I will end up using it to measure drive pressure or something - again still overkill.  I have plenty of analog inputs to work with!  From my math and the datasheet I think it will measure to the nearest 0.09PSI which should be totally fine for my needs.
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #53October 01, 2013, 10:07:48 am

vanbcguy

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Re: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build
« Reply #53 on: October 01, 2013, 10:07:48 am »
Well this happened:



...that's gear oil with chunks of metal coming from my transmission...  020 self machining syndrome or something similar...

So now I'm very much actively working on this again!!!

Block is stripped down, still need to pull the pistons / crank but otherwise she's ready for the machine shop...



The bores look good - you can't see from the photos really but you can still see some of the factory crosshatching at least at the top of the bore.  I PROBABLY could have run it without a rebuild, but where's the fun in that??

Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #54October 06, 2013, 02:02:46 pm

vanbcguy

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Re: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2013, 02:02:46 pm »
Dragged Jezebel back from Delta where she's been sitting since the transmission blew.  I had a HECK of a time getting her up on to the dolly, and then even more trouble getting her off again.  There's gear oil everywhere underneath, the splash shield off the bottom of the transmission has disappeared so I'm pretty sure there's a gobload of gear oil in the clutch.  It can't hold the engine anymore - I had to take her up to 4K RPM and basically dump it to get her off the dolly.  Freaky.



I believe I've sorted out my turbo and manifold stuff.  Apparently a 2004-2006 Passat 2.0 TDI exhaust manifold fits the MkIII chassis perfectly (it's essentially the same as the AFN manifold except it has EGR provisions).  Darkside Developments have GTB1756VK turbos converted to vacuum operation, perfect for what I need.

Big problem I've got is the injection pump.  Libby isn't making them anymore, Westyventures will be "in a couple of months" but he's in the middle of redoing his shop right now.  Giles is looking for WAAAAYYYY too much money and all he's building is "stock equivalent" - to get a 12mm pump head he wants another $1k on top of his fee.  There's the Advanced Automation LT 2.8 pump available for a bit more money - haven't heard anything about their reputation yet.  Their pumps ship limited to 4K RPM plus have the "low smoke" governor I hear isn't so hot, so I'd be in to modifications right from day one. 
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #55October 06, 2013, 02:36:53 pm

bbob203

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Re: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build
« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2013, 02:36:53 pm »
Id go with a rover pump for now. Or contact dieselmeken he seems reasonable.
92 Passat wagon M-TDi
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Need a car transported a long distance? Pm me for details.

Reply #56October 06, 2013, 04:42:23 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build
« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2013, 04:42:23 pm »
Get a Land Rover 200TDI or 300TDI pump, use your 1Z/AHU rollers and cam-plate as well as delivery valves. You will be all set for power then.

I found to get a nice steady idle I had to use a 1.6TD idle spring on the governor assembly. I could not get a nice idle with the  two weak spring LR setup.

Reply #57October 06, 2013, 04:43:51 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2013, 04:43:51 pm »
Oh yeah, for that as well you will need the larger AAZ pump mount.. or bore out your 1Z/AHU one. The Rovers utilize the ALH size snout of VE pump. Possibly could use an ALH mount if you want to use the twisting pulley style timing too.

Reply #58October 06, 2013, 06:08:24 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build
« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2013, 06:08:24 pm »
ALH mount is completely different.  It won't even bolt to the 1Z/AHU. 

I would not use the AAZ bracket as it is missing the extra roller.  Best would be to use the 1Z/AHU bracket and have it machined for the larger snout. 

I have the Rover pump on my ALH Automatic Vanagon and it works well.  I pulled it to bits before installing it and had to replace the camplate/rollers as they were pitted and replaced the governor shaft/gear/flyweight assembly as it was oddly worn.  For the camplate I used a Cummins 4BT.  I did not have any difficulty with the idle and kept the stock Rover spring.

Reply #59October 06, 2013, 06:13:34 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Vanbcguy's M-TDI Build
« Reply #59 on: October 06, 2013, 06:13:34 pm »
TY Andrew. Always overfilling with knowledge you are. (yoda I am)

I don't know why, and never looked in to it, but the idle springs caused a hunting idle for me. Changed it out and never had an issue since.

How does the 4BT cam plate measure up to the large lift of the AAZ and 1Z/AHU cam plates?

 

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