1984 Jetta 1.6 N/A Diesel Problem.

[Ceepo88]

I did test the stop solenoid and it stays open with the key in the cranking or on position. I'm really lost as to what the problem is with this car, I did put clear fuel line on and it has some air in the return line (was just some residual air from changing the lines out) and no air in the feed line. When I changed the fuel lines I took a 5 gallon container of diesel fuel and ran the line from the injection pump to the tank(so only 2 leak points) and cranked the car over, the pump sucked fuel quiet well from the container and sputtered like it wanted to start but still no luck. Its gotta be a fuel or compression issue but why would it run with a rolling start and not cranking under its own. Even when I try starting fluid it doesn't start. Also when the car is warmed up from rolling start and then I turn it off and try again it wont start...

[Ceepo88]

Few photos of the motor, their is a little air in the return line but that is from replacing fuel line to clean lines. Did the pull/rolling start and it fired up after a second and drove it about 10 miles, plenty of power, does throw tons of black smoke out the tail pipe when you mash the gas(more than I feel is necessary or normal).

These photos are of the car sitting for 1 night after I replaced the fuel lines to clear feed/return lines, p.s. previous owner put red dye diesel in it(lived in small rural city) and that's why the lines appear to have a pinkish hue to them.





Starter:

[Ceepo88]

I just got done talking to my Mechanic friend and he said it seems like it is in fact a fuel issue and seems like it is getting to much fuel upon start up messing with piston rings/compression and not allowing the motor to build compression using the starter; but pull starting it the motor is spinning faster than the starter can turn it over and clears the fuel out of the chamber and allows it to fire up. Also the excessive smoke(black sooty, unburnt diesel fuel) it has when driving(4th gear, 50ish mph it will blow black smoke from behind the car for days) makes him feel it is this issue also. Gonna try turning the fuel screw down and see if it helps at all.

[8v-of-fury]

the pump sucked fuel quiet well from the container and sputtered like it wanted to start but still no luck. Its gotta be a fuel or compression issue but why would it run with a rolling start and not cranking under its own.

Have you checked your glow plugs? You have pretty much ruled out fueling, by the pump being full, and it sputtering like it wants to start.

Even when I try starting fluid it doesn't start.

Well after reading this...  You most certainly want to check the glow plugs. They are probably missing their tips. Ether is a HUGE NO-NO on high compression glow-plug pre heated diesels my friend. Never use it again. It will cause more harm than good.

I just got done talking to my Mechanic friend and he said it seems like it is in fact a fuel issue and seems like it is getting to much fuel upon start up messing with piston rings/compression and not allowing the motor to build compression using the starter. It will blow black smoke from behind the car for days, makes him feel it is this issue also.

Oh boy, seems like your mechanic friend is a gasoline engine guy. More specifically a carburetor guy lol.

If it were a fueling issue, it is most certainly NOT an over fueling issue.

Gonna try turning the fuel screw down and see if it helps at all.

How does it run once you have got it running? If it idles good, and revs up without issue.. then turning the fuel screw anywhere will not help. Especially not down, as it will decrease fueling.

Now what I have said here might come off as rude, or too harsh. But, there is a lot you need to learn before attempting anymore work on this engine. Clearly you are going at this thing completely blind, with a mechanic who doesn't know what he is doing either. And that is a recipe for disaster. These are extremely simple engine and fuel injection systems. You are over complicating the hell out of it and it is stumping you because of it.

Typical hot start issues and lack of starter being able to roll the engine over to catch are directly related to Low Compression.

[TylerDurden]

Good pix!

Dark sooty smoke is actually burnt fuel... too much fuel-to-air or "overfueling" - similar to the soot from acetylene when you cut the O2 on a torch .

Unburnt fuel is whitish or light grey, usually from insufficient pump timing advance.


An engine with bad compression can take forever to start (if at all) - much faster starting by push or pull.

A bad starter or bad starter-bushing can crank too slowly to fire the engine; if the engine is cranking fast >150rpm but not starting, low compression is likely (all other things being sufficient).

(While glow plugs are not the root of the problem (IMO), I'd check them if ether has been used... it kills em.

[burn_your_money]

What were the voltage drop test results?

[Dakotakid]

Well, if it were mine, I would carefully measure the valve clearances right about now.
Or, perhaps two weeks ago.

[Ceepo88]

I'm gonna perform a compression test today and will post the results later this evening after I finish it. I know it seems I'm going at it blind, I have rebuilt a few motors in my day(all gas and all Nissan sr20det engines). I will do a voltage drop test as well, my gut tells me it's going to be a compression issue honestly.

[Dakotakid]

Ether hammers rings like being on a blacksmith's anvil in these engines.
Then, it literally blows the precombustion chamber into the bore and you have an immediately destroyed engine.
Don't do it again even on a "worn" engine. Once (already done) is all it takes.

And, yes, I learned this knowledge the hard way years ago.

[8v-of-fury]

I'm gonna perform a compression test today and will post the results later this evening after I finish it. I know it seems I'm going at it blind, I have rebuilt a few motors in my day(all gas and all Nissan sr20det engines). I will do a voltage drop test as well, my gut tells me it's going to be a compression issue honestly.

Compression is always good to start with.. They are compression ignition so they need it.

I am not questioning your engine rebuilding knowledge, all of that would transfer to this engine as well. You are un-educated on vw diesels, dont take that as anything but what it says. Do some reading, if you know engines then with knowledge this will be a cake walk.

[Ceepo88]

Sorry didn't mean to come across as a jerk or ass or like I was offended ha ha ha.

Did a compression test finally after buying a few tools to do it and got low numbers, could only do 3 of the 4 cylinders as the injection pump was in the way of the number 1 injector and I didn't wanna mess with the timing right now.

Dry compression test showed       #2: 90 psi, #3: 200 psi, #4: 128psi
Wet compression test showed      #2: 200 psi, #3: 405 psi, #4: 260 psi
Wetx2 compression test showed   #2: 160 psi, #3: 300 psi, #4: 200 psi
(compression test was done using a Bentley Manual for instruction.)

My gut from day one told me it was compression just didn't have the right tools to perform the test until now.

Now the question 1. SHOULD I REBUILD IT (If so where should I order parts and what parts should I steer clear of, i.e. hans diesel or what not) or 2. FIND ANOTHER MOTOR? (Any good sources for good used motors?)

[ORCoaster]

Getting the tools, the parts and time will all likely be less than trying to obtain a well maintained engine that is any better than what you already have.  I say rebuild it.

[TylerDurden]

Better the devil you know, best the devil you built.

Might just need rings... can't lose much by taking the top off and looking inside.

[ORCoaster]

Kind of what I was thinking.  If there isn't a lot of wear in there then rings might do it.  that would be about 150 bucks and go.

[Ceepo88]

I'm gonna yank the head off tomorrow or the next days, I will get some pictures of things after that. If I do in fact rebuild this thing do you guys recommend the rebuild kit at parts place inc. or should I piece together my own kit and parts?