1.6 Td injectors in AAZ?

[homerj1]

Stupid question of the week:

Are there any gains when running 1.6td injectors on a AAZ - basically one stage vs two injectors.

ie: Nozzle selection, ease of set up, make car go fast...  -

car is: daily driver, min. mods - external IP mods, mostly a straight pipe exhaust, has a k3 turbo on it.

thanks

[Blocksmith]

From what I understand the only real difference between the two is that the AAZ injectors will be more difficult to calibrate when rebuilding. I think the general consensus is that the AAZ two-stage injectors really have no net effect on power. VW engineers were trying to make the motor quieter by reducing the abruptness of the injection; it had nothing to do with power one way or the other.

Nozzles should be physically interchangeable between the two, so no advantage/disadvantage there, just a question of which nozzle you choose to run. But I've read that the stock nozzles for either one flow enough for way more power than most people can get out of the motor, so there's really no reason to use different nozzles, either.

If you're wanting to make more power, the real power gains to be had lie in the pump and the exhaust system. Do the gov mod, turn up the fuel screw, open up the exhuast, perhaps get a bigger turbo. One really does not need to mess with injectors until 175+ hp, and not even then, some say.
Another thing to think about would be swapping out the boost pin in the LDA for a 1.6 pin--much more aggressive than the AAZ pin. 

If you do decide to try the 1.6 injectors, keep in mind you're going to need to swap out the delivery valves and injector lines, since the 1.6 injectors are shorter. 

[R.O.R-2.0]

the injectors in either engine are WAY BIGGER than the engine could ever possibly use..

there is little gains to be had in the nozzles, or injectors..

the gains, like were mentioned, are to be had with exhaust and injection pump mods, as well as increasing the boost..

a turbo-back exhaust system really helps out alot..

(turbo back as in from the outlet of the turbo, not the outlet of the stock downpipe, aftermarket downpipes reduce EGTs, and allow for quicker spool-up. the stock turbo downpipe and exhaust system are stupidly restrictive..

the governor mod is a MUST DO mod if you are in on the quest for power.. it effectively removes the spring governor, and makes it so that you can turn as many RPMs as the pump will physically allow.. the actual engine is good for more RPMs than the pump will deliver fuel up to..

the stock air intake, air filter, and air box actually flow very good for stock pieces.. alot of people say that they dont need upgraded, but i feel they become a restriction with larger turbos and high RPM..

have you considered running the whole 1.6 injection system on the AAZ? the pump, injectors, and fuel lines all bolt up to the AAZ for an increase in performance.. the LDA on an AAZ pump is basically useless anyways. the 1.6 pump has a fully working LDA, and the ability to supply more fuel because of that. i swear i remember hearing that the 1.6 pump was more performance oriented in stock form, than the AAZ pump.

[vanbcguy]

Pretty sure the AAZ pump has a better camplate than the 1.6 pump, in fact I believe that is one of the Giles upgrades in the super pumps.

The LDA is definitely better in the 1.6 pump, but remember it is really for smoke control, not power. A cranked up fuel screw will give you power even with the crappy LDA, but with a lot of pre-spool black clouds. There are more adjustments in the 1.6 LDA too, so it is easier to dial in on the right fuel settings for low-smoke in normal driving.



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[R.O.R-2.0]

Pretty sure the AAZ pump has a better camplate than the 1.6 pump, in fact I believe that is one of the Giles upgrades in the super pumps.

The LDA is definitely better in the 1.6 pump, but remember it is really for smoke control, not power. A cranked up fuel screw will give you power even with the crappy LDA, but with a lot of pre-spool black clouds. There are more adjustments in the 1.6 LDA too, so it is easier to dial in on the right fuel settings for low-smoke in normal driving.



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a better cam plate doesnt mean the whole pump is better, or more capable IN STOCK FORM..

im talking about 2 stock pumps, side by side, with only the normal gov mods, advanced timing, that sort of thing..

having an awesome camplate doesnt do anything for you if the rest of the pump limits the max amount of fuel..

i believe the "joke" LDA negates the benefits of the 4mm cam plate..

remember, the AAZ LDA pin has almost NO SLOPE to it, so that means very little additional fuel when the boost picks up.

maybe im just completely wrong, out in left field tho...

[8v-of-fury]

1.9 AAZ boost pin, AKA the Joke Pin



1.6 TD boost pin, THE REAL DEAL

[vanbcguy]

Not in any way denying the superiority of the 1.6 LDA. And yes I am familiar with the two different pins. In an ideal world I'd have an AAZ pump with a 1.6 top.

If you turn the fuel screw on the AAZ pump up so much that it smokes a ton even at full boost, there is nothing you are going to gain from the LDA power wise.  The whole reason there is almost no slope on the AAZ pin is that the turbo was smaller and the engine is larger, bringing on boost sooner. Not nearly as much reason to hold off full fueling compared to the big K24 or T3 on a 1.6. And remember, that is what the LDA does - hold off fuel until boost is present.  Now crank up max boost to 2x stock and you are going to want a steeper pin with a stiffer spring so you can keep the smoke at reasonable levels.

The camplate and pump head determine the capabilities of the pump, the LDA just controls when those capabilities are used.  A steeper ramp on the camplate will inject more fuel in a shorter time than a shallower ramp, which is what you want. The AAZ pump PROBABLY has a more emissions oriented timing curve than the 1.6 pump, so I'll concede that. The timing piston spring on the AAZ pump is probably stiffer, bit I've never had both side by side to compare. Would be a worthwhile endeavour if someone has both handy.

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[8v-of-fury]

1.9 AAZ timing springs are a two spring setup. 1.6 pumps use a single spring.. but with about 8 variations. Even the softest 1.6 spring is still tougher than the 1.9 springs. AAZ pumps should theoretically advance timing WAY sooner than any 1.6 pump.

[CrazyAndy]

I'd swap a 1.6TD pin into the AAZ pump if (if you can; barring that, run the 1.6TD IP outright w/ injectors) and run a bigger exhaust and more boost to maximize the new pin's effectiveness.  I think the AAZ double timing springs coupled with the aggressive pin would make for superior low end pickup.  Don't know what it would to for turbo spool, but would definitely improve on-boost power.

[vanbcguy]

1.9 AAZ timing springs are a two spring setup. 1.6 pumps use a single spring.. but with about 8 variations. Even the softest 1.6 spring is still tougher than the 1.9 springs. AAZ pumps should theoretically advance timing WAY sooner than any 1.6 pump.

Hmm probably for noise reduction... Less static timing and a softer advance would give a quieter idle while providing the needed advance at higher speeds... That's another thing Giles builds in to his pumps BTW. 

I guess that is probably why so many AAZ pumps had that advance disable mechanism for emissions reasons.

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