-
Turbo Size for a 1.6TD...? by Bugsy_malone 666 on 14 Aug, 2012 15:06
-
A common question I suspect however I am trying to weigh up another idea. Basically I Acquired 2 little turbos today from a 1.3cdti vauxhall/opel engine. the plates are slightly different on each turbo, but essentially the same turbo. Heres a pic of the plate on a turbo the same as mine (but not the actual one):
which is one of these ( I think) http://en.turbolader.net/Turbocharger-Catalogue/8900-1665/860067/54359880006.aspx
So basically I thought being sized for such a small engine, you wouldnt just fit one to a 1.6N/A with a TD pump would you? or would you? Then I thought well maybe not 1, but what about 2? The problem with these turbos I aquired is that the wastegates are seized shut, this means when they spin up, super silly boost is achieved causing the engine they came from to go into 'limp mode' lol.
So I was thinking, what about 2 of those turbos, 1 for a pair of cylinders each, use an old twin outlet GTi exhaust manifold from a mk2 and mount a turbo on each outlet.
Also knocking about I have a garret T15 thats got a bit of shaft play (think maybe it wants new seals and a bearing fitting) which might be more suitable. Also I aquired a GT17 today which I think maybe a variable vane, or might just have a complicated integrate wastegate system, and generally its mostly shot and needs new bearings seals for sure! -
#1 by CrazyAndy on 14 Aug, 2012 17:40
-
Some shots of the GT17 DP exit to confirm if it's VNT or not, but I'm pretty sure it's not since that's a MK5 GTI turbo IIRC.
As for the 1.3 turbos based on the vendor's photos, damn they're tiny! They'd make even a K03 feel big. Could we get a size comparison photo of it next to something for posterity? I'l be honest though, if the turbine manifold flange is as small as I think it is then I don't know how they'd perform on an engine 300cc's bigger. Got any charts or housing measurements to throw up as well? I'd/we'd need some data before coming to a more concrete conclusion.
As for mounting the turbos on a 4-2-1 gasser manifold, the spacing of the outlets wouldn't allow for turbo placement without funky fabrication and complicated piping. Now if you could fab a mani up that had the holes separate and further spaced out then yes. You could even face the turbine housing's DP flanges toward each other and run them into a common DP, routing the compressor outlet hoses over the VC with the cold side intakes running to individual intake snorkels. T off from the original oil supply hard line, and T back in at the drain bung in the block (or run one turbo drain into the stock block area and one to the pan MK1-style if that's not good). This is of course assuming the turbos will be a viable option as well as you un-sticking the WGs.
Short answer: if the 1.3 turbo's work and you have (or know some one who) can fab then I'd try it out just for the fun of it. But if this isn't a project and you need the car a little quicker then I'd go with a simpler single turbo.
In4pics if it is for a fun project, though!
Good luck.
-
#2 by Bugsy_malone 666 on 15 Aug, 2012 00:56
-
Actually I do have something for size comparison:
Thats my hand and I have an average size man hand lol
I'll have to have a look a bit later when I get home on what the actual numbers are on the thing to give an idea of sizing, I'd imagine just one on a 1600 would spool up on idle lol.
When I said about the GTi manifold, I was thinking if you turn it upside down you have the 2 ports pointing upwards, with a little bit of fabrication you could have a little intertube adaptor between the GTi flange and the 2 turbos mounting them close to the head. but higher up than they are normally mounted, then as you suggest you could do anything from there.
Basically I have a mk3 golf 1.8 gas engine, 31mpg is the most I achieved out of it in recent times (I may be driving it too hard) so its a running car that my g/f is getting more experience in with me having not driven for a while so we dont use it all that often, I have a 1.6N/A that I had in my camper, which I upgraded to a TD, I then aquired a TD pump to rebuild for my van (not that there is anything wrong with my TD one thats on there but I wanted to do the mods) and I thought if I do the swaps I will have a 1.6 n/a to rebuild, its got a mk4 golf inlet manifold whack a modded diesel pump on it and then the 2 turbos, then look to install it in the mk3 golf. Need to get a TDi gearbox to raise the gearing too.
That was kinda my plan.
As for the wastegates, I am sure I can unsieze them, but if I cant I could always fit an external wastegate before the turbos. -
#3 by libbydiesel on 15 Aug, 2012 06:01
-
Considering the amount of custom work required to mount parallel twins, there's no way it would be worth it. Just buy the appropriate stock turbo bits and sell those two and you'll be way ahead for both time and money.
-
#4 by R.O.R-2.0 on 15 Aug, 2012 12:44
-
WOAH!! those are lawn mower sized turbos yo...
i wouldnt even consider running one of those.. they would be WAY too restrictive..
comparing those to a K03, makes the K03 look HUGE..
if they had a model number, they would prolly be a K01.. hahaha -
#5 by RabbitJockey on 15 Aug, 2012 13:05
-
If u pull the compressor housing off and measure the induced and exducer of the compressor wheel we could get an idea of the size, they're looking pretty small tho
-
#6 by bbob203 on 15 Aug, 2012 14:11
-
WOAH!! those are lawn mower sized turbos yo...
i wouldnt even consider running one of those.. they would be WAY too restrictive..
comparing those to a K03, makes the K03 look HUGE..
if they had a model number, they would prolly be a K01.. hahaha
Turbo go-kart. -
#7 by R.O.R-2.0 on 15 Aug, 2012 14:49
-
WOAH!! those are lawn mower sized turbos yo...
i wouldnt even consider running one of those.. they would be WAY too restrictive..
comparing those to a K03, makes the K03 look HUGE..
if they had a model number, they would prolly be a K01.. hahaha
Turbo go-kart.
since some of the newer race bikes are fuel injected, it cant be real hard to boost one of those..
or a turbo crotch rocket.. who wants to go 300 mph? -
#8 by mystery3 on 15 Aug, 2012 22:59
-
If you have the spare time and skill to run twin turbos it would be awesome!
I'm no mathematician and I don't think the calcs are as easy as "it spools on a 1.3, two should spool on a 2.6" but I bet running them parallel on the 1.6 would work. -
#9 by Bugsy_malone 666 on 16 Aug, 2012 01:09
-
If you have the spare time and skill to run twin turbos it would be awesome!
I'm no mathematician and I don't think the calcs are as easy as "it spools on a 1.3, two should spool on a 2.6" but I bet running them parallel on the 1.6 would work.
well yes, its all about how much exhaust gas flow you get, but sometimes you can judge sizing a bit. Seems these days alot of turbos seem to be designed to come in at the 1800 or less RPM mark, which considering how small those are would probably mean lower rpm cut in for one, with the downside of being very restrictive very quickly, this is why I thought hmm, maybe 2 might work.
When you look at the size outlets on the twin GTi down pipes compared to the turbo's they are a closish match, what it may result in is boost that comes in further up, but it seems people have been running these turbos on the car its designed to at about 1.2bar so thats 2.4bar potential pressure flat out!
As these are off a 1.3tdi engine I did wonder how well one would work on an old aircooled vw 1300 beetle engine too
I need to look at what stuff I have knocking about, space and fitment, its very hard to build anything without it being in the car! I need to hunt down a gearbox and rebuild the engine and I think I'll be away! -
#10 by R.O.R-2.0 on 16 Aug, 2012 10:57
-
If you have the spare time and skill to run twin turbos it would be awesome!
I'm no mathematician and I don't think the calcs are as easy as "it spools on a 1.3, two should spool on a 2.6" but I bet running them parallel on the 1.6 would work.
besides the fact that you have to have 2 of everything with twin turbos..
it would get real full real quick with twins in there..
atleast compounds use one intake and exhaust stream, not 2 independent ones.. -
#11 by CrazyAndy on 16 Aug, 2012 13:49
-
If you have the spare time and skill to run twin turbos it would be awesome!
I'm no mathematician and I don't think the calcs are as easy as "it spools on a 1.3, two should spool on a 2.6" but I bet running them parallel on the 1.6 would work.
besides the fact that you have to have 2 of everything with twin turbos..
it would get real full real quick with twins in there..
atleast compounds use one intake and exhaust stream, not 2 independent ones..
That's the reason I suggested point the turbine outlets toward each other so they share a common DP, but then again I do think now about how you would get it on. As for the compressor outlets you could T them together pretty quickly. I'm sure you can fit them depth-wise as you can squeeze a holset back there, Just laterally would be the big issue, as pipes going around the engine everywhere would get pretty cluttered, not even including the oil lines. And fabbing the manifold(s).
I can't speak about compound setups as I've yet to wrap my head afound them, but I guess I should have said originally this would be HYPOTHERICALLY doable, but DIFFICULT. Only attempt this if you have access to fabbing and the knowledge to get it all to fit and work. If you're looking for a quicker fix, look to the other turbos. -
#12 by libbydiesel on 16 Aug, 2012 14:15
-
There is absolutely no advantage whatsoever to parallel twin turbos over a single appropriately sized turbo unless plumbing is difficult as in a V or H type motor where running runners to a single turbo is very challenging. To do so on an inline 4 would be an incredible waste of time and effort considering single turbos of just about every inclination (small, medium, big, VGT, etc...) are available as bolt-on options.
-
#13 by Bugsy_malone 666 on 16 Aug, 2012 14:50
-
There is absolutely no advantage whatsoever to parallel twin turbos over a single appropriately sized turbo unless plumbing is difficult as in a V or H type motor where running runners to a single turbo is very challenging. To do so on an inline 4 would be an incredible waste of time and effort considering single turbos of just about every inclination (small, medium, big, VGT, etc...) are available as bolt-on options.
Ah there is an advantage, the turbos didnt cost me a penny! That aside, I do also have a Garrett T15 turbo, gonna see if my mate has any more for rebuilds has he seems to get quite alot in with seized wastegates etc. maybe these tiny turbos might work well on a aircooled camper engine, give it a bit more pep!
I do have a GT17 turbo, but looks like it could be fairly kippered, need to take it apart but its got alot of play in it!