Filter setup for WMO

[8v-of-fury]

Arr'y so check it monn.

I am gonna start running some bubbling crude, Jed Clampett style . Lol.

I have access to thousands of liters of waste motot oil, through various shops were friends and myself work. It is stored in large tanks so here is my plan, let me know what you think.

The large tanks sit for a good amount of time between being filled and emptied (which costs these shops money, ill do it free). In that time i feel all the water will seperate and sink, the metal will seperate and be at the bottom of the water, and ill be left with clean black oil up top . Now i dont wanna filter this between tanks.. Yes i am that lazy. Id just rather contain the mess to my car lol.

What im thiking is i can run a three filter setup on my car.. Its an mk1 so i have all metal fuel components regarding filler, tank and lines. I have a good void beside the tak under car that i want to run a 25 micron with a water seperator right at the tank, a larger than stock 15 micron with water seperatot and larger than stock 2 micron with water seperator (in that order) before my electric puller pump and then have that feed directly to my IP. I think that will be worth the effort of installtion to filter in the car..

Plus means i can dump any old thing in my tank at any given timelol!

[clbanman]

Keep in mind most filters are rated using a multipass test, while with your setup you will mostly get a single pass before supplying your IP.   Also the efficiency rating is very important if you are doing a single pass.   If the last filter for example can catch as small as a 2 micron particle, that doesn't mean it stops everything larger.  If the efficiency is 50%, then half of all the 2 micron particles would get past it.   There are some filters available with a single pass rating.

Doesn't mean I'm trying to rain on your parade.   One of my co-workers runs 80-100% waste oil during the summer on his VW diesel.  Smokes more than on No.2, but not outrageously so.   What he is using has a fairly significant but undetermined percentage of 10W with the rest being 15W40.   If his eyeballs tell him the viscosity is high he thins it out with diesel fuel.   I have no idea what he bases his viscosity criteria on other than gut feel.   He does filter off the car as he says sometimes it can take 48 hours to run through the filters he uses (gravity only).

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/681/oil-filter

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/564/filter-beta-ratios

http://www.aftermarketsuppliers.org/Councils/Filter-Manufacturers-Council/TSBs-2/English/89-5R3.pdf

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=348473

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/sae_filtration_study/index.html

[mtrans]

It will be hard to do it w/o CF,long time is Q.
TRy to pick oil very slow 20 cm from bottom,if you know SVO-WVO boys setup that is OK for WMO.

[burn_your_money]

Oil is designed to suspend particles in it. I think you're going to want to filter it pretty darn good. If you get a nice filtering setup in the shed it shouldn't be much mess at all.

[ToddA1]

Is all oil designed to suspend particles?  I thought that was the main difference with diesel rated oil. 

Everything that I've read on the subject of WMO, Black Diesel, etc., pretty much called for being particular with what you burn.  No diesel oil or city driven oil.  I guess if you want to spend a lot of time filtering or spinning, you could run anything.  2 stage filter socks are pretty cheap, but as mentioned, several passes are required.

I'd like to see you go for it.  This topic has always facinated me, but I don't drive enough to make it worth my time. 

-Todd

[8v-of-fury]

Well what I am thinking here is, if the stock filter is 15 micron.. It has had stuff that has been >14 micron going through the pump all the time, and even stuff <15 micron some of the time. Does it really matter what the particles are so long as they are smaller than the clearances in the pump are? If these pumps run 500k with stock filters that weren't changed regularly, guaranteeing that there were particles (of whatever, crap from a diesel tank..).. Whats to say the 3 or 4 micron stuff is going to do any damage by making their way through the filter and in to the pump?

If my final filter is 2m and being that it may not be 100% at a single pass, who cares? The stuff getting in to the pump will still only be 2/100's of a human hair.. and that is still 13m smaller than what was allowed to flow through the pump stock.

I am not being a snot noser here, lol. I am simply coming at this from every angle. I have a thirst for knowledge! I WANT OT KNOW ALL!

[8v-of-fury]

Seems that Racor would be a suitable supplier, and this would make a good 2nd filter after a larger micron and before a 2 micron.

045-RAC-351 FUEL FILTER/WATER SEPARATOR

The 045-RAC-351 fuel filter/water separator is assembled with our legendary 10 micron Aquabloc®II media, a plated steel housing, a vent plug, and a lateral drain. This filter is designed to be installed on the suction (or vacuum) side of the fuel system with a maximum flow rate of 35 GPH (132 LPH) with diesel fuel and 45 GPH (170 LPH) with gasoline. This fuel filter assembly is extremely effective in removing better than 93% of free water normally found in fuel due to condensation and removes 95% of particulate matter down to 10 micron (nominal). Typical applications for the 045-RAC-351 include: generator sets, agriculture equipment, construction equipment, or any engine up to 220 HP."

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.338f315e827b2c6315731910237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=94639bd01975e210VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default&vgnextfmt=EN&productcategory=productline&vgnextdiv=687630&vgnextcatid=227023&vgnextcat=045-RAC-351+FUEL+FILTER%2FWATER+SEPARATOR&Wtky=

[ToddA1]

I'd say go for it, since you have spare engines and pumps.

One thing I'd be concerned about is the viscosity of WMO if you plan on running it straight, especially when the temperature starts dropping.  Black diesel would be a safer bet, although you'd need to spend a few bucks on diesel.  Another concern would be the acids in used oil.

I'm sure you could cut the WMO enough with a lesser amount of gas and get the same results.  Be careful with adding gas, though.  

-Todd

[8v-of-fury]

Well after doing some HEAVY reading, like 20 pages or more of pure knowledge.. I am now an aware being on your typical media filter.

It would seem.. that I probably will have to do some polishing prior to putting it in the tank. So from that note, what are people using for home filtration devices? I have heard of house water filtration systems , can that get down to 2u (u=micron)?

Filter bags. Seems to be the best way to go. Cold VO will do about 1gpm. These are 50 GPM bags, that have been known to filter over a thousand gallons without replacement. Start at 200u and end up at 1u. Sounds pretty good to me for like $50... I don't have access to spare AHU engines and Rover pumps no, I was more foolish with my 1.6 n/a LOL.. that I had a few parts motors and 9 pumps for.

--200/100u
4 3/32" Diam
14" Tall
50 GPM   
P/N 5726K46   
$8.95   

--50/25u
4 3/32" Diam
14" Tall
50 GPM
P/N 5726K44   
$8.95

--10/5u
4 3/32" Diam
14" Tall
50 GPM
P/N 5726K42   
$8.95

--5/1u
4 3/32" Diam
14" Tall
50 GPM
P/N 5726K41
$8.95

[burn_your_money]

Well what I am thinking here is, if the stock filter is 15 micron..

I think it's important to remember that diesel from the station is pretty clean. There's not a lot of crap floating around in it, which is why you can basically never change your fuel filter and not have problems. WMO is full of brass, copper, tin, aluminum etc.

Your filtering plan sounds good. Where are you getting the bags from? You have to worry about them stretching and loosing their u rating right?

[8v-of-fury]

Well yes, but there is most certainly particles in No.2 that are under 15u. Now it doesn't matter what these particles are , but the fact that they are there is the problem.

Tyler, being that you worked on these pumps I don't suppose you know what their tolerances are for the vane pump and such moving pieces?

The filter bags are from McMaster-Carr, and they are "Polyester Felt Bags with Type 304 Stainless Steel Retaining Ring and Woven Polyester Handle—Max. temp. is 300°F". I do not think you have to worry about them stretching. What does your brother use to filter that VO?

[R.O.R-2.0]

Seems that Racor would be a suitable supplier, and this would make a good 2nd filter after a larger micron and before a 2 micron.

045-RAC-351 FUEL FILTER/WATER SEPARATOR

The 045-RAC-351 fuel filter/water separator is assembled with our legendary 10 micron Aquabloc®II media, a plated steel housing, a vent plug, and a lateral drain. This filter is designed to be installed on the suction (or vacuum) side of the fuel system with a maximum flow rate of 35 GPH (132 LPH) with diesel fuel and 45 GPH (170 LPH) with gasoline. This fuel filter assembly is extremely effective in removing better than 93% of free water normally found in fuel due to condensation and removes 95% of particulate matter down to 10 micron (nominal). Typical applications for the 045-RAC-351 include: generator sets, agriculture equipment, construction equipment, or any engine up to 220 HP."

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.338f315e827b2c6315731910237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=94639bd01975e210VgnVCM10000048021dacRCRD&vgnextfmt=default&vgnextfmt=EN&productcategory=productline&vgnextdiv=687630&vgnextcatid=227023&vgnextcat=045-RAC-351+FUEL+FILTER%2FWATER+SEPARATOR&Wtky=

figured you would be one of the people that this would be helpful for..

plus, it removes 95% of 10micron and larger particles with a single pass..

[8v-of-fury]

I might run a dual Racor setup on the car, 10u and 2u respectively to just fine-polish that fuel. After that much, it should be pretty "clean". lol

[burn_your_money]

Well yes, but there is most certainly particles in No.2 that are under 15u. Now it doesn't matter what these particles are , but the fact that they are there is the problem.

Tyler, being that you worked on these pumps I don't suppose you know what their tolerances are for the vane pump and such moving pieces?

The filter bags are from McMaster-Carr, and they are "Polyester Felt Bags with Type 304 Stainless Steel Retaining Ring and Woven Polyester Handle—Max. temp. is 300°F". I do not think you have to worry about them stretching. What does your brother use to filter that VO?

He used a cloth as a pre-filter then runs it through a 2 micron spin-on I think. It might be 5. He also settles it for as long as possible.

I would think the vane pump is fairly tolerant of particles but the head and rotor are not. With your bare eye you can see when a vane pump is screwed, not so with a head and rotor. The advance piston and bore might also suffer because it is the lowest point, moves around a lot but has little flow.

[EcoTX]

Have you done any research on centrifuges?

If I was at all serious about running WMO I would invest in a nice centrifuge. 

With the volume you have access to, it would pay for itself in no time.

Centrifuge > Filters in the long run IMO.