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Author Topic: Using oil with 3000 miles on rebuild  (Read 6256 times)

Reply #30January 30, 2013, 01:56:37 pm

tyb525

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Re: Using oil with 3000 miles on rebuild
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2013, 01:56:37 pm »
I'd put a simple filter in the breather if dirt was an issue. I don't have any problem connecting the breather to intake right now, maybe when the rings get more worn I'll do something different. right now blowby is basically zero.
2004 Golf BEW, '81 1.6 NA rabbit (soon to be parted out)

Reply #31January 30, 2013, 02:38:10 pm

Dakotakid

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Re: Using oil with 3000 miles on rebuild
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2013, 02:38:10 pm »
Ok, back to your original question:  many of my original KS (oem from factory when manufactured) equipped VW diesel engines used oil when they came into my life. Over the years, I have come to believe that phenomenon is a consequence of KS. But, there was no way to verify how these engines were cared for prior to my ownership. So, there may well be validity to your assessment of harder rings. Let me say this though, I got a hell of a LOT of miles out of those original rings and pistons (one car was 435,000 miles). THAT particular car hogged about one quart to 500 miles when I got it with 52,000 miles on the odometer. I never got to "shook" about it as popping the hood and pulling the dipstick just ain't near as much of an inconvenience as you make it to be. You have a trunk....right? There ain't room for a quart or two of oil in there?

Second:  how accurate was the bore job and how good a hone was on those cylinder walls when it left the machine shop? Of course, you will reply everything was great.....but really!

Third:  You continue to batter dino 15/40 oil and I find that rather strange. Today's oils are really something. As a matter of fact, I've ran VW diesels literally over 1.5 million miles (from 1979) and there was only one winter I opted to run a synthetic. I don't think I have ever run one of these engines under 350,000 miles.

Fourth:  Block prep plays a major role in all of this as well. How accurate was the bore and how proper was the hone job. I’m sure you will say it was great…as does everyone.

Fifth:  You mention NOTHING of the cylinder head work….or was it even dealt with? New valves? New valve guides? Meticulously placed valve stem seals and then a careful installation of the valves through these seals (using a little plastic condom guard and some assembly lube?)?

Right now, I would recommend you go back to some of that “inferior” dino oil, vent the block, and run it. Have the discipline to pop the hood and carry a couple of quarts in the trunk. See if things improve. Next, I would start with the small stuff and reapply a new set of valve stem seals and then see what happens.
I personally do not think you have a broken or broken rings as the consumption would be much greater.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 02:47:09 pm by Dakotakid »
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Reply #32January 30, 2013, 02:39:03 pm

RabbitJockey

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Re: Using oil with 3000 miles on rebuild
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2013, 02:39:03 pm »
my breather was routed up to the breather hose that goes from the valve cover to the intake manifold, so no new dirt could be introduced.  and like i said all the later engines are setup the same way, u could even use the parts off an aaz for a nice oem look.

i think the reason it helps is because the crank case does not breath properly through the oil drain holes and builds up too much pressure, in my case it build up alot until it pushed a bunch of oil out.  at idle that engine had very little blowby.  all later vw engines also added a bunch of extra oil drains so i think the idea is well rooted.  from the 11mm engines to the 12mm engines they made the drain bigger, then when they went to hydro lifters they added an extra drain, and some where around 99-00 they added a bunch of extra oil drains on the back side of the engine block.  with extra breathers and drain holes it also means that each breather and drain will have less air velocity so more time for the oil to fall out of suspension.  sure this engine shouldn't be burning oil regardless, but this is definitely one way to help it stop.
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Reply #33January 30, 2013, 06:12:07 pm

wil892

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Re: Using oil with 3000 miles on rebuild
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2013, 06:12:07 pm »
Thanks for the info on the breather, I have actually been looking at getting an AAZ or TDI setup, so I will keep an eye out for one. No oil leaks as far as I can tell. My car has the plastic engine tray which is dry.

Dakotakid that is reassuring to know there are others like mine! Its not too much of an inconvienience to top the thing up, I check it most journeys tbh , I was just hoping for an engine which didn't use oil from a rather expensive rebuild, I can dream though!

Also I agree that 15w40 should be absolutely fine in these cars, its what they were designed for, I think its a mental thing telling me synthetic MUST be better for my engine than the dino 15w40, but it reality I I'm not sure it is really necessary in the UK weather.

The engine was bored 0.5mm oversize for the new KS pistons, I made sure to check which clearance they used, it was 0.001" or 0.03mm, which I remember thinking was correct, they also requested the new pistons before they would bore the block. The bores were "plateau honed" according to the machinist, as seen in the picture in this post http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=30282.0
However I did not personally measure them after, when I assembled the block.

The cylinder head was a Genuine Turbo diesel cast with no cracks, fully stripped, brand new Federal Mogul prechambers, new bronze valve guides, 4 new genuine exhaust valves, reused inlets, new followers. New Elring valve stem seals were used. However again, I did not see the head being built, so I obviously cannot say the seals were installed correctly.

I'm going to source a breather kit and will get around to swapping in the 15w40
1991 Golf MK2 GTD

Reply #34January 30, 2013, 09:25:50 pm

Dakotakid

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Re: Using oil with 3000 miles on rebuild
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2013, 09:25:50 pm »
Yah, I actually put 5/30 gasoline oil in rebuilds for the first 500 miles or so. Seems like the rings (even Right Way Industrials) seal up pretty fast. I am sure many people will poop on my forehead for THAT! But...whatever. Goetz rings seem to be super well-mannered.

Recently on the Vortex forum, one guy had oil consumption like this and I suggested he inspect the valve stem seals which his mechanic had installed. It turned out that at least one of them was "floating" on the valve stem above the guide. So...stuff happens.
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Reply #35January 30, 2013, 10:55:47 pm

theman53

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Re: Using oil with 3000 miles on rebuild
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2013, 10:55:47 pm »
What trev is suggesting isn't an external breather. The only dirt that would get in is from the engine oil. I ran my 1.6 exactly like that from day 1. You just T the vent from the intake and puck on the valve cover to the block. A piece of 1/8" steel with a 3/8NPT thread and a brass barb works very well. Drill the 2 holes to go in where the gasser mech fuel pump went and bolt on.

Reply #36January 30, 2013, 11:59:37 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Using oil with 3000 miles on rebuild
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2013, 11:59:37 pm »
I personally run synthetic, but for no reason other than I get it cheaper than most pay for dino oil ;)

$2 a qt for Volkswagen synthetic! yeeyaaaaah

Reply #37March 24, 2019, 02:05:32 pm

wil892

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Re: Using oil with 3000 miles on rebuild
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2019, 02:05:32 pm »
Hi,

I thought I would revive this thread as I continued driving my new engine, despite the oil consumption.

However, the car is getting a full restoration so decided to pull the engine and inspect after 70k on the rebuild.

I found some quite deep scores on number 4 cylinder, which, on removal of the piston seem to have been caused by some debris damaging the piston slightly.

I was expecting to see some nasty scuffing but actually the pistons generally look very good, the bearings were also basically new.

My question now is, could this damage be the source of my oil burning? Does it look bad enough?

I'm not really sure what route to go down now, but seem to be swaying towards boring out a spare block I have and using my OS pistons from this block.

I didnt really want to pull the pistons, but as soon as I saw the scores and could catch them with my fingernail I didnt really have a choice.

Does anyone else have any suggestions on a way forward?

As seen when took the head off
https://photos.app.goo.gl/PdueexcFJddf2Bk4A
Scored side of piston
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Wofko1zztkvHaE968
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ePfhBJPf9oD65s7z8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8m1EUycjdBLn82Q26
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bnT4zmdqWtaeUaNu7
Otherside of piston
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KYKSSNR3R3ZHt7SeA
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 02:11:52 pm by wil892 »
1991 Golf MK2 GTD

Reply #38March 24, 2019, 07:06:22 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: Using oil with 3000 miles on rebuild
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2019, 07:06:22 pm »
The deep scores in the cylinder wall could be the cause.  The pistons look totally usable, though. 
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