!979 Rabbit Diesel Need help!

[vw-tim]

okay so i got everything timed now i dont have a dial indicator so i didnt mess with the IP just left it how it sits made sure it was TDC with the sprocket and stuff but anyway now i go to fire up the car and it seems like its almost there almost gonna start! but it doesnt lol it just is really dumping out white smoke from the exhaust! what should i do now? maybe move the IP towards the engine or farther away? would that maybe do it?

[ORCoaster]

Before you move the pump Tim are you pulling out the cold start knob on the dash?  This gives some amount of advance to the engine and may solve your problem.  If indeed you do have that baby all the way out and it won't start shove it in all the way and go move the IP towards the engine the width of a pencil mark from where you are at right now.  Just draw a line across the top of the pump and that index mark on the bracket.  That may get you to start up.  All that smoke tells me that you are either at a retard position or the glow plugs are not warming up.  I think you mentioned that they all work in the initial post here.

Check the pull knob, cycle the glows twice and try again.  No luck? or rough after start and smokey.  Bump the pump.
 DAS

[vw-tim]

Before you move the pump Tim are you pulling out the cold start knob on the dash?  This gives some amount of advance to the engine and may solve your problem.  If indeed you do have that baby all the way out and it won't start shove it in all the way and go move the IP towards the engine the width of a pencil mark from where you are at right now.  Just draw a line across the top of the pump and that index mark on the bracket.  That may get you to start up.  All that smoke tells me that you are either at a retard position or the glow plugs are not warming up.  I think you mentioned that they all work in the initial post here.

Check the pull knob, cycle the glows twice and try again.  No luck? or rough after start and smokey.  Bump the pump.
 DAS

yeah cold start knob is out and i did the glow plugs still just smokes i moved the IP towards the engine as far as i could.. still  nothing its like its almost there.. what else could i do? could it be bad injectors or somthing i do have another IP that the guy gave me when i bought the car what if i just swap pumps could that be reason or no?

[libbydiesel]

also when i have TDC on everything and i go to Tension the belt how tight should it be on there? with how its on there now its pretty tight.. should it be alittle loose or no?

The issue of correct belt tension both very simple and challenging.  If the belt is wildly loose, then the pump or worse the cam can jump time potentially causing pistons to hit valves.  If the belt is too tight, the injection pump bushings and the intermediate shaft bearings will wear out in short order.  The pump bushings require a full rebuild ($$) to replace and the intermediate shaft bearings are no small task.  Some models require engine removal for access.  There is a special VW tool for measuring the tension and various brands have made aftermarket versions that are reasonably priced.  For use of the VW tool (or similar) or any other objective method, the cam sprocket should be able to rotate on the camshaft and the pump lock pin should be removed.  Short of the VW tool, I would say that the best rule of thumb I've come up with is to get all the slack into the tensioner area as mentioned previously, and then rotate the center of the tensioner CW as hard as I can by hand while I tighten the tensioner nut.  The next best method, IMO, is to again make sure all the slack is in the tensioner area and to use a tensioner wrench to first apply a little tension to the belt and then let the tension of the belt spring the tensioner back.  I'd say 5°-10° CW from where the tension of the belt springs the wrench back is just right.  The test of rotating the belt as mentioned in some manuals is so subjective it is useless.        

[vw-tim]

also when i have TDC on everything and i go to Tension the belt how tight should it be on there? with how its on there now its pretty tight.. should it be alittle loose or no?

The issue of correct belt tension both very simple and challenging.  If the belt is wildly loose, then the pump or worse the cam can jump time potentially causing pistons to hit valves.  If the belt is too tight, the injection pump bushings and the intermediate shaft bearings will wear out in short order.  The pump bushings require a full rebuild ($$) to replace and the intermediate shaft bearings are no small task.  Some models require engine removal for access.  There is a special VW tool for measuring the tension and various brands have made aftermarket versions that are reasonably priced.  For use of the VW tool (or similar) or any other objective method, the cam sprocket should be able to rotate on the camshaft and the pump lock pin should be removed.  Short of the VW tool, I would say that the best rule of thumb I've come up with is to get all the slack into the tensioner area as mentioned previously, and then rotate the center of the tensioner CW as hard as I can by hand while I tighten the tensioner nut.  The next best method, IMO, is to again make sure all the slack is in the tensioner area and to use a tensioner wrench to first apply a little tension to the belt and then let the tension of the belt spring the tensioner back.  I'd say 5°-10° CW from where the tension of the belt springs the wrench back is just right.  The test of rotating the belt as mentioned in some manuals is so subjective it is useless.        

okay so basicly us your hand to tension the belt as tight as you can so its not loose but its not really tight ha i think i got that now

[ORCoaster]

OK,  now this is going to freak you out.  Pull the pump all the way towards the front of the car.  Some experience the same result as you with a pump that is advanced too far.

I trust you have cracked the top of the injector nuts enough to release any air stored up in the lines.  But the pump holds on to air like Mother Hubbard clutches nickels.  It might need to get running to clear it out. 

Duh?  That puts you in a Catch 22 right?  No, some go to the extreme of pull starting the beast,  Mostly because their battery is low and can't really crank it the way it should.  You do have a good battery and all connections on both grounds and positive points, like the starter are cleaned up? 

[vw-tim]

okay so i just want to verify that this is what all timed up and ready to go should look like...






and all of that is with the belt tensioned am i ready to go?

[vw-tim]

OK,  now this is going to freak you out.  Pull the pump all the way towards the front of the car.  Some experience the same result as you with a pump that is advanced too far.

I trust you have cracked the top of the injector nuts enough to release any air stored up in the lines.  But the pump holds on to air like Mother Hubbard clutches nickels.  It might need to get running to clear it out. 

Duh?  That puts you in a Catch 22 right?  No, some go to the extreme of pull starting the beast,  Mostly because their battery is low and can't really crank it the way it should.  You do have a good battery and all connections on both grounds and positive points, like the starter are cleaned up? 

yes i did pull it foward too i sorta had this other IP that looks better then the one im using idk if im going backwards here i just felt like slapping that one on and then re bleeding the fuel and re timing everything im setting the IP to the center hash mark and i guess ill try and start it up again and i am cracking the fuel lines when i move the ip to realise the air in the lines. so im gonna try it again and report back after i try this one out hopefully it does the trick! this is frustrating ha i really apprecaite all your help man! such a good info im def learning a ton!

[ORCoaster]

OK,  Looks set up the correct way just turn it over by hand a few times to make sure nothing is hitting inside and warm the glows, hit the starter and give the accelerator about a third to half way to the floor push as well.  Mine needs that if it has a burp inside it sometimes.  Hint number 107 probably.  Oh, and cold start lever out as well.

DAS

[libbydiesel]

Is the woodruff key in place in the pump shaft/sprocket?

[ORCoaster]

ohhh that would be key now wouldn't it?  All marks on but yet pump still out of time.  Great catch Libby.

[vw-tim]

Is the woodruff key in place in the pump shaft/sprocket?

yes woodruff key is in place!

[vw-tim]

OK,  Looks set up the correct way just turn it over by hand a few times to make sure nothing is hitting inside and warm the glows, hit the starter and give the accelerator about a third to half way to the floor push as well.  Mine needs that if it has a burp inside it sometimes.  Hint number 107 probably.  Oh, and cold start lever out as well.

DAS

yeah now the white smoke isnt as bad at all so should i push this pump towards the engine and see how it does or the opposite way and just mess with it? i was thinking maybe i should do a compression test see if the chambers are at the right compression because if there not no way this cars gonna fire up huh??

any suggestions on where i can get a compresion test for the diesel? they hook into the injector holes correct?

[ORCoaster]

White smoke not so bad now?  I would pull it to the front and see if it gets worse.  Then bump it towards the engine a bit at time.  Crack the nuts on the back of the pump and you can get it to move real easy that way. 

I bought a Harbor Freight diesel compression tester kit for something like 40 bucks and the adapter fits in the injector hole real well.  Just remember to always push the breaker bar or torque wrench towards the head.  Don't ask me why I am having to rebuild my head right now because of a cracked injector boss.  Just found it that way a few weeks ago after a good cleaning.  By the way you can detail my engine like yours and I would just jump for joy.  wow.

[vw-tim]

White smoke not so bad now?  I would pull it to the front and see if it gets worse.  Then bump it towards the engine a bit at time.  Crack the nuts on the back of the pump and you can get it to move real easy that way. 

I bought a Harbor Freight diesel compression tester kit for something like 40 bucks and the adapter fits in the injector hole real well.  Just remember to always push the breaker bar or torque wrench towards the head.  Don't ask me why I am having to rebuild my head right now because of a cracked injector boss.  Just found it that way a few weeks ago after a good cleaning.  By the way you can detail my engine like yours and I would just jump for joy.  wow.

ha okay ill call up harbor freight tomorrow and see if i can get a diesel compression tester kit is it just a universal one or should i look out for like a certain one to buy?? and yeah white smoke not as bad ill mess with moving the ip toward the engine and away tomorrow and report back. gosh i just wanna get this thing going! haha and thanks my engine bay could be heck of a lot cleaner it was disgusting when i bought the car... lol

also with my iginition like ive been having to crank the engine by using a wire on the + of the battery and hitting the starter solenoid when  i turn the key to start it just clicks at me.. i was thinking it just needs a new starter switch so i ordered one of those but then i also came apon this link thinkin maybe i just need to wire one of these in?

and would cranking the engine by jumping it might prevent it from starting? i didnt think so but i thought id ask

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2593146

and also does this look like the compression tester you have?

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-piece-diesel-engine-compression-tester-93644.html

the reviews aren't the greatest...