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Author Topic: Is it possible for the pump to be timed 180* out? Internally as well?  (Read 21849 times)

Reply #30March 25, 2012, 09:25:16 am

srgtlord

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Re: Swapped pumps, timing perfect, lots and lots of smoke....
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2012, 09:25:16 am »
You know, I wonder if thats why most of prothes pumps do  not run, he puts the shafts in 180 off lol nevermind the chineese delivery valves and distributor crap.

Reply #31March 25, 2012, 11:48:47 am

8v-of-fury

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Re: Swapped pumps, timing perfect, lots and lots of smoke....(SOLVED)
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2012, 11:48:47 am »
I guess we don't get to start calling Jeremy, 8V of Prothery yet tho. lol

He had it all the way apart, and back together, and it runs fine now.
Maybe he needs to go be Prothe's new shop supervisor.

To be honest I do not know how I missed this.. :( like it only goes in two ways.. and I have built other pumps. Just a stoopid goof on my part. I take full blame, but I am very glad you got it solved up easily enough.

You know, I wonder if thats why most of prothes pumps do  not run, he puts the shafts in 180 off lol nevermind the chineese delivery valves and distributor crap.

We should contact someone who is having prothe pump problems and get them to spin the pump sprocket around and see if it doesn't solve the problem..

Reply #32March 25, 2012, 11:51:11 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: Swapped pumps, timing perfect, lots and lots of smoke....(SOLVED)
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2012, 11:51:11 am »
its WAY easy to put these pumps back together 180* out..

the cam plate can be installed in either TDC position, or 180* out of time..

if the little drive pin on the back of the cam plate is not pointing up when the keyway in the shaft is pointing up, then its out of time.

the first pump i ever built, i had it 180* out, but i realised it before i put it all the way back together.

dont feel bad Jer.. siht happens.. ALL THE TIME!
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #33March 25, 2012, 11:55:40 am

8v-of-fury

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Re: Swapped pumps, timing perfect, lots and lots of smoke....(SOLVED)
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2012, 11:55:40 am »
its WAY easy to put these pumps back together 180* out..

the cam plate can be installed in either TDC position, or 180* out of time..

dont feel bad Jer.. siht happens.. ALL THE TIME!

Yeah that is what I'm saying though man. lol I know how it goes together, it wasn't my first rodeo ya know?

I do feel bad, he had to go like 2 weeks without a car..

Reply #34March 25, 2012, 02:19:43 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Swapped pumps, timing perfect, lots and lots of smoke....(SOLVED)
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2012, 02:19:43 pm »
IMO, it's easiest to make sure everything is correct by installing the pump top last.  When the top is still off, it is very easy to rotate the pump and make sure everything is moving correctly.  During that rotation, stop when the keyway of the mainshaft is pointing UP.  You can then look at the plunger foot at the same time and see the cutout in it that indexes with the pin in the camplate.  This obviously doesn't work if your assembly sequence ends with installing the distributor head and plunger. 

The method I will be using from here on out. I do put the lid on last, but never thought to check it that way. Touche :)

Reply #35March 25, 2012, 03:01:09 pm

Baron VonZeppelin

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Re: Swapped pumps, timing perfect, lots and lots of smoke....
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2012, 03:01:09 pm »
You know, I wonder if thats why most of prothes pumps do  not run, he puts the shafts in 180
Same thought crossed my mind too.

We have always had them double-check for 180* out externally.
I don't think i can remember anyone ever suggesting that one could have been 180* out internally before.

Alleslowbuged deserves 4 bonus cetane points for suggesting that.

Probably possible that has been the problem with a lot or most of the bad pumps we have tried to help folks with from Prothe.

The paper-wad test joins the list of things to check from now on.   

Reply #36March 25, 2012, 03:02:48 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Swapped pumps, timing perfect, lots and lots of smoke....(SOLVED)
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2012, 03:02:48 pm »
The paper-wad test joins the list of things to check from now on.   

Unfortunately John, this had to be learnt at your expense it seems.. but it was a step in the right direction for future diagnosis.

Reply #37March 25, 2012, 05:56:41 pm

ORCoaster

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Re: Swapped pumps, timing perfect, lots and lots of smoke....(SOLVED)
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2012, 05:56:41 pm »
So Mr. Moderator, can we get a short summary of fixing the 180 out problem on the sticky board? 

Check delivery of fuel at #1 injector or delivery valve when turning crank.  Does fuel flow or does it come out @#4?

Remove belt when at TDC like it should be and turn the IP pulley 180 degrees and lock with the other hole with the pin or socket.

Check for proper keyway and plunger pin alignment by looking through the top of the pump.

What else just occurred here? 

Oh, we have one more running car back on the road. 

Reply #38March 25, 2012, 10:29:50 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: Swapped pumps, timing perfect, lots and lots of smoke....(SOLVED)
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2012, 10:29:50 pm »
I added it to the FAQ quick guide, as well as moving it here to the troubleshooting.

Reply #39March 25, 2012, 11:27:47 pm

ORCoaster

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Hey keep it up mister we might just keep you around.  
And that raise you wanted.  Well, talk to the fan club.

Thanks.  Seems like that is the Achilles Heal of these engines.  Such a simple thing to fix if you know what is going on inside, you won't be fooled buy the external signals.

 Like the Glow plug light.  

Means something but what is it really telling you.  
« Last Edit: March 26, 2012, 12:01:09 am by ORCoaster »

Reply #40July 06, 2013, 11:35:38 pm

rumbling_caddy

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 What is the correct orientation of the woodruff key?  I swapped a 1.6 NA pump for a 1.6td pump but now it's not starting.  Timing marks all correct ( Flywheel TDC, cam locked, IP locked ).  IP set at 1.10 and it sputtered like it want to start but doesn't. Not too much smoke either.  My woodruff key currently point towards the back of  the vehicle.  Is right or wrong?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 12:44:02 am by rumbling_caddy »

Reply #41July 07, 2013, 12:09:06 am

ORCoaster

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With the nut off the IP the key should be pointed at about the 10 Oclock position Maybe 1030  If it is and you still have the problem the internal piece may be flipped 180 and that is a problem.  You can figure out which cylinder is getting fuel by turning the pump over by hand with a wrench.  Take the nuts off or loosen them at the back of the pump.  Fuel should leak out of the #1 if timed correctly.


Reply #42July 07, 2013, 12:48:12 am

rumbling_caddy

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Thanks for the reply. Sounds like I have it the correct orientation, but will try it IP spocket turned 180 tomorrow.  I don't have the history of this pump

Reply #43July 07, 2013, 04:41:53 pm

ORCoaster

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I would try cracking the nuts off the back of the IP first as that is easier than redoing the timing belt in my opinion.  Maybe you like the practice? 

Reply #44July 09, 2013, 01:57:06 am

rumbling_caddy

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I did take off the lines to take a look.  Everything is correct but my 1.6td IP is bad.  No fuel for #3 and very little for the other cylinders.  Probably a gummed up IP.  Put back the 1.6 NA pump and the engine runs fine

 

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