Starting issue

[deki_mg]

Hello, good people of vwdiesel.net

I have starting issue with my Golf Mk1.
It has '91 GTD engine (watercooled turbo, but no IC until i think of a good place for it).
It has starting issue after more than few hours out in cold (it's around -10 degrees centigrade here)

When I turn the key, glow light turns on, stays on for around 30s, then it cranks like it doesn't get enough fuel (not like it has no fuel) and it cranks slower with cold start lever pulled (that is normal). After around 50s of cranking it eventually fires, but needs cold start lever to be pulled in order to continue running (for, maybe 20s).

Funny thing is if I turn engine off after it has fired and worked for few seconds, and try to turn it on, it starts normally.

Fuel is diesel with aditive (it should not gel or freeze until around -25 degrees)

I suspected fuel problems and changed filter, no luck there.
Changed air filter, no luck.

I am waiting until I finish some exams to take her to compression test.

Does anybody have any suggestion where to look for problem until compression test?

Cheers

[Dakotakid]

Need to have working glow plugs and glow plug fuse.

[ORCoaster]

Yes on glow plug check.  On our fur balls the light on the dash just means the light on the dash works.  May not be providing voltage to the plugs.  That is done with a meter or amp gauge.  Strange setup but that is the false indicator light.  Think of it as a time on light, not a glow plugs are working light. 

[Vincent Waldon]

Some "troubleshooting the glowplugs" thoughts here:

http://www.vincewaldon.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=41&Itemid=28

 

[Baron VonZeppelin]

On the bright side, you have at least 3 of the 4 GlowPlugs working, and a strong healthy battery.

It would probably almost never start in -10* on 2 Gplugs from a cold start. Without draining 2 batteries completely.

Restarting after short warm up is a sign of good engine, and further testament that probably only 1 GlowPlug is bad.

[bajacalal]

I would agree, start with glow plugs, and if no problem is found with the glow plug system, I would check the static injection timing before assuming that the compression is bad.

There are 2 glow plug systems, slow and fast. The slow (~30 sec.) relays were used in early cars, the mk2 engine used the fast (~7 sec.) relay. 30 seconds seems like an awful long time for the fast system to stay on, which would lead me to believe something is wrong with the glow plug system, refer to the link above to troubleshoot. The slow system is considered obsolete. If you have the earlier slow relay (321-911-261) or plugs, consider upgrading to the fast (171-911-261) and Bosch Duraterm plugs (80010).

It sounds to me like the glow plugs are at least partially warming up but not reaching the correct temperature in the specified time or not all of them are working. This could be caused by corrosion and excessive resistance in the wiring to the glow plugs, so check to make sure all contact points are clean and tight, and that they are receiving enough voltage. If this does not fix anything, you probably have bad glow plugs.

Have you tried double-cycling the glow plugs?
1. Key ON, wait for glow plugs light to go out.
2. Key OFF,
3. Wait 2 seconds.
4. KEY ON again, wait for glow plugs light to go out, START.

If the car starts better after this sequence, I would believe the glow plugs are not getting enough voltage.

[mtrans]

Do you have smoke on start and which color is,best to eliminate fuel problem is to use jug above IP.

[deki_mg]

Update:
Today I went to electrician, diagnosed TWO dead glow plugs and he didn't believe that I started the car by cranking.
Changed all four plugs, we'll se in the morning if it was the only problem, but I am quite sure that everything will work fine.
I have slow system, because it's Mk1 with Mk2 engine, but electrical installation including glow plug relay is old.
It's problem here to find good quality fast glowplugs, so we stick to old and slow system.

I tried double cycling glow plugs, no dice.
I even made switch which breaks contact from glowplug sensor to relay in order to let plugs work as long as I want.

Will update tomorrow, when I see for sure if problem is solved.

Thanks everyone for help

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Take those old plugs and bench test them if you can.
I am amazed you cranked on 2 in that temperature.
You must have very healthy compression, starter, and battery.

The slow plugs are the hard ones to get in North America.
Been out of circulation here for a while.
Unless you crossover to Duraterm by Bosch, they can be used with a slow relay.
Fast Bosch still available and plentiful here.

[deki_mg]

Two dead glowplugs are completely dead (open circuit)
Two good plugs are good (Red tips)

Battery is 75Ah, half year old, but from (to me) unknown Thai company (Puma batteries). I bought it because it has two year warranty and costed 75$, whereas next priced one from local manufacturer costs around 108$, Varta costs 120$ and so on... (and I am a student with low income)

I never measured compression (and probably will not if everything works ).

Here we have market full of "branded" parts, like bosch(, NGK and so on..) glowplugs for around 5$ a piece ?! and the work for less than a year... so I'm pretty sure that it's not original.
I've bought Slovenian Iskra glowplugs for 6$ a piece (nobody counterfits these )

We'll see epilogue in few hours when I head to exam

cheers

edit: updated info on battery

[deki_mg]

Glow plugs were only problem.
Today (at around -10C) started like it is warm summer day idled roughly, I've pulled cold start lever, pushed it after 5 seconds, and it idled quite evenly

Thanks everyone

cheers

[ORCoaster]

Ahhhh, another satisfied customer.  Chag chig.