Does not start, HELP

[zolorin]

First I would like to thank this forum for being a trove of important information on my quest to rebuild my VW caddy.  I am more familiar with the TDI engines and this is my first IDI engine.

So here is the scoop.  I bought a caddy in august that had a quarter million miles and it leaked like a mother.  After replacing the hoses from the fuel tank to the engine with the biodiesel rated (Viton) from Grease works and realizing that not only the caddy is loosing the fuel from bad hoses but also from the IP, I decided to clean everything up.

Here is what I have done in one go
1. pulled the engine and trans and replaced all of the engine/trans mounts
2. replaced the CV seals, front engine seal, cam seal,
3. rebuilt the IP (http://www.greenbaypartsworld.com/vw/vw_injector_pump.htm)
4. replaced all the hoses (coolant and fuel)
5. did the IP governor mod
6. learned that prothe is a bastard (learned the easy way -- only financial ruin, and not engine ruin)
7. installed a VNT turbo
8. welded custom exhaust
9. fabed custom intake
10. learned that painting trans mount can result in starter being unhappy about lack of ground.
11. Assembled everything
12. did the timing (probably set a bit high -- 1.2 mm)
13. Primed the IP, fuel filter, fuel line, IP head via the solenoid

NOW does not start -- I can see it sucking the fuel (via a small air bubble moving inside the clear hose) but it seems it cannot push the fuel into the hard lines -- tried loosening the hard lines, cranking hard
NO AVAIL

so now I am waiting for the battery to recharge as I am writing this post.

[8v-of-fury]

First, clearly rebuilding the pump would have drained it completely of fuel.. so it is going to take A LOT of cranking to fill the injection pump with fuel.

Secondly, 1.2mm is wayy too high. That is .35mm above the stock setting and in my opinion is too high to start cold.. I assume its cold where you are? No info on where your from.

Third, who set the timing? You did? Did you know the proper procedure? I assume from you setting it to 1.2mm you knew enough to get it somewhat right.

Fourth, is there any fuel coming from the hard lines while cranking? if it is sucking fuel into the pump but not out the hard lines, either the pump is just bone dry still, or the stop seolenoid (little electrical connection) on the end of the pump near the hard lines is not getting 12v.

Fifth, Any smoke at all from the tailpipe whist cranking?

[zolorin]

1 -- I read up to fill the injector pump once it is installed to reduce cranking (syringe into the inlet and outlet of the fuel pump until it is pouring out with fuel

2 -- it is still 60F in sunny san diego (I have updated my profile)

3 -- I did the timing, read the procedure and people have said you can go to 1.1+ as a power mod

4 -- no fuel from the hard lines -- I am going to check the voltage -- this could be the culprit

5 -- no smoke

[zolorin]

get 11.6 volts on the solenoid while on and 9.6 volts while cranking

still no fuel in the hard lines - so bad solenoid?

[zolorin]

Pulled the solenoid out

it does pull the plunger toward itself when the voltage is applied -- so working solenoid

Put is back together and cranked for a bit -- still no answer

What should I do

[ORCoaster]

Did you test the operation of the solenoid with the wire through the key switch?  Or just jumper across from the battery with a wire?  I would be sure I had it working as it normally is wired.  You should be able to pull the solenoid out, key the ignition and watch the plunger go in and out.  They wear along the sides of the plunger and hang up at times.  I would tap the wire on and off the stud many times to see what it does. 

If it shows scoring along the length of the plunger I would get out some 400 grit sandpaper (do you paint cars?) throw some diesel on it and polish out the scratches.   

You can also take the plunger out altogether and try to get it to fire or at least crack the injector nuts and see if fuel is getting that far.  Once you have fuel to the injectors tighten them down and try starting the car.  Just know that to make it stop running you are going to either stall it out or run it out of fuel. 
Then reinstall the plunger and try again. 

I also would take the timing back to  .90  from where you have it at 1.1  advanced timing can be as bad as too much retarded but this engine can do retarded better than advance. 

my two cents less 50%

[zolorin]

By stalling out you mean to use the transmission and the brakes to stop the engine (by releasing the clutch?).

Then the answer is yes.  I have done that on my first car (86 corolla with bad carb).  So I think am familiar with that operation.

Let me try that tomorrow. 

Thank you

[ORCoaster]

Yes, Stall = slipping clutch with foot on brake until engine dies.

[mystery3]

I might try supplying the IP with a jar of fuel instead of sucking out of the tank. I'm assuming you replaced the fuel filter as well? How was your compression?

[somolovitch3]

Didn't burn_your_money or one of those guys write about sucking fuel thu the injector return lines with a pump? Thus insuring fuel in IP,Hard Lines and Injectors?
Not to mention good strong hands.

Maybe a lift pump to stuff fuel into the IP? Seafoam and ATF added to the IP?
We sure we put the vanes back in?

You can use a BIG 1/2" Drill to spin the IP (without the timing belt) until it starts to squirt ,and then reset the pump timing to the T Belt. You can really tell when the pump is working! (Be sure to get insurance if you rent the drill!)

Oh, yea.  Glow plugs good? (Thinking ahead here)

[ORCoaster]

If you are still having trouble getting fuel delivered to the injectors I would take the timing belt off, use the drill method, and run lines from a jar/bottle both intake and output from the pump.  Solely isolating the IP as the problem and not using up the battery. 

When I have taken the IP apart I use a vacuum on the fuel return line to pull fuel into the pump.  Once I get most of the air out of it I still have some and that may be making it hard to start initially.  Once I see fuel at the injector nuts I glow and crank it and sometimes it still runs rough until all the air is out of the IP.  Takes a bit sometimes.  You have to have your foot down on the accelerator when you hit the key to turn it over.  You have to let fuel into the pump full bore or it doesn't seem to like it.

Keep trying.  Seems like a lot of work there and it will be so sweet to see smoke and hear it running.  DAS

[zolorin]

Impact gun for 30 seconds and I have fuel near the injectors 

I have ran out of fuel on my TDI Jetta (more then once), it was never this bad to restart -- anyways, on to putting the timing belt on -- probably the solenoid is fine too

[8v-of-fury]

Running out of fuel does not completely drain the pump though, so it is really easy to get going again. It only takes a little bit of air to enter the pump for the car to stall out (run out of fuel).

But as you have learned a completely dry pump takes FOREVER to prime!

[zolorin]

Thank you all, it is alive, well sort off

Primed the injection pump with the impact gun (only thing that would fit).

reassembled the TB and fired it up.  WOT and it started to awake. 

Now it will run/ idle high and require about 1/3rd throttle to run.  I will recheck the timing.  Before removing TB the injection timing was actually 0.88 mm

Now where can oil come from? -- it is all over the engine bay -- ( I think the oil pan gasket is not happy

[theman53]

Where is the oil? If it is up top it is pressurized and probably from the valve cover. I had a brand new head gasket leak on the pressure port and it shot out the front of the head. I think I crushed it on accident. Let us know where it is. The weird running could be the need to still fill everything and get all the air out. Or you could be a spline off on the throttle shaft. Or need more main fuel screw.