New to me 1.6TD

[Baron VonZeppelin]

I thought the DKG 126 was the proper kit.. DKG 121 is better?

Thanks, that's good to know.

DGK 126 is for the NA basic pump.
One thing i know for sure - you won't get the boost aneroid (spaceship) o-ring/seals in that kit. And someday you might need them. Most do not replace these until they are defacto leaking. PITA to do these compared to all the rest.

These things i can't remember for sure - because i have yet to reseal a base NA pump - all have been TD or 88-92 Altitude Aneroid (TD lookalike) pumps :

Seems like my mind thinks the governor cover seal is shaped different.
And that the cold start o-rings are different.

Anyhow, if you have a TD pump - get the DGK 121
Its for the pumps with an aneroid on top.
About 1-2 dollars more , IIRC.

============================

The problem with your NA Pump definitely points to being governor related.     

[steevz]

Local supplier has them in stock. $17.30 for the DKG 121. $18 for the viton mainshaft seal.. so just under $50 with tax. Will pick them up Friday.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Yeh the Bosch Brown Viton front seals are pricey rascals.
Been priced on them from 13-22 each.

The Zexel Black seal is usually from 5-10.
Side by side the Bosch seal looks a lot stouter and way more deluxe.

Not had any issues yet with Zexel seal tho.
But none of my people are using Bio either.

The DGK 121 comes with a Brown Viton front seal
.... but its 20mm
And they never want to trade them out.   

[8v-of-fury]

Seems like my mind thinks the governor cover seal is shaped different.
And that the cold start o-rings are different.   

The governor cover? I assume you just mean the pump lid/top? It is the same gasket between NA and TD. The cold start o-rings are also the same.

[steevz]

The DKG 121 comes with a lot more pieces for the same price. The guy showed me both. I'll try and get him to trade. I'm not running bio so I'll try to just get the zexel seal. Thanks!

[Baron VonZeppelin]

The governor cover? I assume you just mean the pump lid/top? It is the same gasket between NA and TD. The cold start o-rings are also the same.

Yes, the top lid cover apparatus. Throttle shaft comes up through it.
I'm sure i was wrong on the seal for that part now after kicking in more memory. (2 more tokes)

Leaving us to have to trim all those nubs off is SO unthoughtful.

On a whim - about 2 years ago i bought 3 of the 126 kits thinking as long as i wasn't doing the aneroids all the time - save some bucks. Got the 126's for $10 each. 121's cost me 18-24 depending which channel.

On the next Altitude pump, i used a 126 kit.
One of the cold start seals didn't seem exactly match,
winged it anyway.
It leaked on bench test.
Had to open a 121 kit and get the right seal for it.

Thats where that sentiment came from.
Worth noting these TD and Altitude pumps i've done all have had 
the fast idle rod/spring feature on the cold start.
And worth noting i've never done a Non-Aneroid pump.

I'm "thinking" that might be what divides them.
Being whether or not they have that fast idle feature.
Or it was just a bad day.

But i use nothing but 121's on Aneroid pumps since then.

and BTW -
The Zexel Black seal is Bosch of Japan
The Bosch Brown Viton seal is Bosch of Germany

Might try putting these 20mm Bosch Brown seals on eBay some time for half price. lol

Damm guys wouldn't get hurt by swapping me the 17's !

[steevz]

Mine pump lacks the fast idle cold start. So now I don't know if the 121 cold start lever seal will fit, it's not leaking atm.

If the top seal is the same.. what about the throttle seal? I know mine is leaking. If I get the 121 and that doesn't fit.. I'll have the problem.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

The cold start would be the only 1 thing that "might have chance" to be a compromise.
I'd get the 121 kit, and then give them the pump number from your NA pump and ask for the outer cold start o-ring for it.
You'd be fully covered.
Might be a dollar at most.

Then you still get the Brown 20mm front main seal to try and work him to swap for a 17mm. And the aneroid parts.

The 126's i got had no front main seal.
Do you remember if the 126 he showed you had one ?

My "local" supplier is a 75 mile (120kms) roundtrip.

[8v-of-fury]

The different cold start mechanisms still use the same seal. The seal seat is part of the pump body. not part of the flat machined face of the different advance mechanisms.

Fast idle or just regular advance, NA or TD. Same seal .

[Baron VonZeppelin]

8V i think we're talking about 2 different things.
The one i had trouble with isn't the inner one where the cover meets the pump body like you describe.

It was the outer one.
Can't log in to Pbucket but maybe these will show up.

To clarify more - have you personally ever used a 126 kit to reseal one of these pumps with the fast idle cold start - and had no conflict with the outer cold start o-ring leaking ?

[8v-of-fury]

haha my bad BVZ.. Totally thought by the way you worded it.. that you meant the o-ring that fits in the pump.

No sorry, only done non fast idle on those seals.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

No Probo man.
Just trying to keep it strait.

The 121 kit does come with a lotta stuff.
I have a good collection of leftovers.

Now - "if" - the outer cold start o-ring is a bit diffy between fast idle, and non-fast idle, probably the 121 has both versions of o-rings. Thats just thinking out loud is all.

Still not swearing that it wasn't something that could just be chalked up to a bad day ... just sharing the experience.

But for safety sake, Steevz could get an extra one seperately for an NA type pump and be covered on all the bases.

I was almost going to reuse the old o-ring since it never leaked there before, but just couldn't cut the corner.

Since tinypic worked so well and easy, here's a couple more.
Pbucket has always been a burden for me to use.

[steevz]

Great pics.. I'm not leaking from there so I'll probably just leave the o ring.

I had a question though.. the head I put on is from have NA. Are the TD and NA injectors any different?

[vanbcguy]

NA and TD injectors have different breaking pressures.  The NA injectors pop at about 130bar while the TD injectors pop at 150bar.

There are others on here running NA injectors in TD engines without issue, you just have to time the pump to the injectors you are using.  There undoubtedly was a reason why VW decided to use a different breaking pressure on TD applications though.

[theman53]

The general idea is that they were worried about a secondary injection on the TD engines. Many have said this and IIRC there was a paper on it somewhere. Many others and I kind of thought it odd as many other engines from mercedes and others had a TD engine with less breaking pressure than VW's n/a