New to me 1.6TD

[BillyWillicker]

I usually pull the engine to do that kind of work but when I put it back together I use the newer VW bolts with the 10mm hex head and the inner 5mm allen head so if I have to pull the pan again in the car I can use a ball head allen bit.

[steevz]

Well, guess I should update.

Second day after having good oil pressure and driving the car to work.. KABOOM.

Timing belt and camshaft broke. Three bent valves.. piston virtually untouched. So, that was a lot of fun. I think my old HG was leaking oil anyways, so it was good that got replaced. Threw on another head, got the shims sized properly and now it's running great.. sounds like a diesel car instead of a tractor.

Only thing I've got to do now is fix the leaky IP. For the meantime I will just be putting an NA pump on. For this can I swap the LDA over to the other pump? Or should I just leave the vacuum line off or plug it in the intake manifold?

[damac]

Did you have oil pressure when it broke?  Did you have a chinese belt on there or did something sieze up?

Feel bad for you, it seems every time I touch my jetta something else breaks to.  I am now regretting not breaking the car down and restarting with a rebuilt tranny and an engine completely gone through.

[steevz]

Yes I had oil pressure when it broke. I'm not sure what happened I should have replaced the belt when I was doing everything else but someone said the shims might have 'jumped' from too much clearance and the camshaft jammed up. There were indentations in 3 of the shims from the cam. It broke right inbetween the intake and exhaust for cylinder 1.

Anyways, I have the NA pump on now. When I start the car it starts idling high like 2k rpm lingers for a second then continues to climb until the car is turned off.. I turn the fuel screw out and then the car won't start. So I've backed it out some more and I'm trying to get the thing to run properly..

Ideas on why the IP might rev itself? I'm thinking max fuel screw might be wiggin out..

Update:

I have adjusted and re-adjusted the fuel screw so many times.. about 1/8 turn or less in each direction to try and pinpoint the spot where it runs away or doesn't start.. and there doesn't seem to be one. Right now it's starting, but will sit between 2000 and 3000 rpm. If I let out the clutch in gear it will go down and then come back out. My idle screw is almost all the way down. The throttle does nothing right now either.. if I step it to the floor it won't do go above 3000. Took it for a quick drive.. NO power.

Could this be from the timing being retarded? Or sound more like internal pump failure?

[Baron VonZeppelin]

If you had ALL the timing index parameters right dead on the button visually, including the Inj Pump index marks - it shouldn't be a timing issue.
Have you rechecked and verified all your parameters.
Just to process the eliminations.

You can adjust the Inj timing with the engine running by ear - slowly and steadily fore and aft - and see what you get from that.

Sounds like an issue with the governor or its adjustment, mostly.
Have you ever had the throttle lever/arm off (unbolted) from one of these Inj Pumps yet ?
Not necessarily this one in particular - just any 1 in general ?
It won't be real hard to do, a little more than meets the casual eye.

There are index marks on the stud and the lever - make note of them/scribe them/mark them. You might re-use that index if else fails otherwise.

You don't have to - and don't want to - completely remove the nut on top.
Just back it off close to the top of stud. The lever is spring loaded.

The lever is splined - the throttle shaft is splined.
You need to lift - and move - the lever - 1 notch counterclockwise.
Pull upwards on shaft nut while doing this to help keep shaft splines from being pushed down out of contact. You'll get the feel for it.
You can use a small blade flat screwdriver in the shaft end slot to help steady the alignment. Sometimes you'll wish you had 3-4 hands to wrench these things.

Tighten down nut and keep feel for alignment/engagement of splines.
Check your index marks now and see if you actually made the right progress.
Test run.

Might need to go 1 more notch same way.
But go 1 at a time and it will change some each time to gauge it.

I'd try that next.
Nothing to lose and no costs involved.

Where was your TD Inj Pump leaking from ?

[steevz]

It looks like it leaking from all over the top seal. I think it's almost leaking everywhere.. maybe the mainshaft seal too.. and the throttle seal.

What it was doing is once the car was turned off it would fill the feed line with air. Then the car would need lots of cranking to get started even when hot/warm. I could see the fuel slowly moving down the feed line and once it reached the pump it would fire up. The return line was always constant foam too. I think the vane pump is getting weak as well.

I have never had a throttle shaft off.. if this pump was running before it was removed from the car.. I bought a complete engine and it was sitting with everything else.. I pulled it off today.. why might I have the change the lever a spline or two? I'm going to try it because I'm out of options.

I think I'm in time because there is NO white, gray, or black smoke. Nothing.. nice and clean.. just isn't running nice. No air though.. the intake and return lines are pure fuel.. which is nice to finally see.

Thanks for your help.. I'll give this a shot first thing tomorrow morning.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Okay

If you heard the other engine running before with that Inj pump on it - it would be mysterious if it needed governor adjusting now.

If you didn't hear it run and see its proper operation before,
then anything could be possible about its past.

If it has been stored/sat for an extended time or in harsh conditions, it might be compromised internally.

These machines can be wonderful sometimes, and they can make you scratch your head sometimes. You have to just catch what they throw and work it out.

If you try adjusting the timing by hand, and try adjusting the governor index, and neither makes improvement - you've done about all that can be done other than having the Inj Pump disassembled and inspected. You've already tested the fuel metering screw.

Good Luck to you on it getting better soon.

[steevz]

The pump was sitting on an engine I bought, previous buyer said he saw it running when before it got pulled ~8 years ago.

Has been stored in a heated garage since.

Edit: I'm going to try adjusting the governor index.. if that doesn't work.. then if i take the pump apart is there anything in particular I should look for?

[Baron VonZeppelin]

If the index adjustments make no gains -
You can try an ATF run/soak/run treatment on the pump and see if it helps.
After 8 years, the governor assy or internals may have varnished or gummed a little.

If after those things still no improvements, you could get schooled up on top cover removal and governor assemblies. One of the Governor Mod threads would be good reading / tutorial. And save everyone a lot of typing. lol

Never know how much is full truth, and how much is untold when you buy this stuff. Inj Pump could even be a victim of a GovMod gone bad in the past.
You never really know.

You wont need to remove the pump to get involved with the governor.

The seals on your TD pump could have been fixed left on the car. fwiw
Only exception is the cold start seals on backside next to engine.

I'd get a DGK 121 Bosch kit and a correct front seal, and jump on that TD pump right away.
Would try just a few more simple things on the NA pump, but not too much that would take away from time that could be spent on the TD pump. jmho

[vanbcguy]

^^^^^^ What he said!! 

Especially the part about focusing on the TD pump.  The reseal is relatively minor compared to trying to fix a messed up pump.

[steevz]

Thanks. I pulled the NA pump back off and put the TD pump back on. Didn't take more then an hour. I'm going to get the kit and just reseal the TD pump. I will pull it to do it though.. may as well.

I noticed it's definitely the throttle lever seal leaking. Top seal and mainshaft seal are too I think. So I'll just seal it off the car next weekend. The NA pump had something crazy going on inside.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

The DGK 121 Bosch Kit comes with the incorrect front mainshaft seal for our VW's (too large). Be sure to specify you need the front seal for a VW 1.6 with the kit.

17mm Bosch #1 460 283 312 or equivalent
                      or
17mm Zexel #9 461 614 046 or equivalent


Later down the road if you want to get into more depth on Inj Pumps, you can use that NA as a guinea pig.

I've only done about 5 reseals on these Inj Pumps, and repaired a few others still on the car. Go ahead and start reading all up on the tutorials for doing the reseal. If there are still any left on here.

From something i recently read, all of Libby's fine work is no longer with us.
 

Was going to do a pictorial walk-through on here after my last reseal -
don't remember if i did or not
so probably didn't

[steevz]

I thought the DKG 126 was the proper kit.. DKG 121 is better?

Thanks, that's good to know.

[ORCoaster]

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=30649.0

It's a sticky in the FAQ section by our illustrious V. Waldon.  Notice those initials?  Hmmm.  Fate.

[steevz]

Oh yeah, I was thinking today.. the max fuel screw on my NA pump is not from the pump. It's from a pump I had in an 82 Vanagon and it was leaking so I swapped them. Could that be causing my issues with the NA pump? I was thinking maybe.. but I should have found the sweet spot with all the small turn and test runs I did.