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#30 by ilikevwdiesel on 18 Nov, 2011 10:11
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put 4 people in a mk2 jetta td that has an ACN trans and drive from Oakland CA to Modesto on I-580, afterwards tell me if you wish you had an AGS or any other 3.94:1 R&P in it.
uh, theres this thing called a gear shift, and every 4 and 5 speed manual has one. its used to change gear selection when the one you are in simply wont do what you want it to.. if 5th is too tall for hills, grab 4th gear. its an easy decision.
i would rather have to shift more, and have that taller gear for flatter ground cruising.. i may not be able to go up hills in 5th like you, but i can go more miles on a gallon of fuel when were not in the hills.
and uh, i never put 4 people in any of my cars. if you put 4 people in ANY VW, you definitely feel it.
well I reckon you're all set then bub, shift away. -
#31 by larry104 on 18 Nov, 2011 10:28
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oh I forgot you know better than the engineers at VAG sorry my bad...
VAG engineers also designed the alternator belt drive. Look how well that works.
I prefer tall gears, and great mileage, and I get both. No compromise, which is why I love my A2.
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#32 by ilikevwdiesel on 18 Nov, 2011 10:37
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I believe it's pretty flat in NE ohio (like the top of your head maybe?), we're talking about the SF Bay area. Ever been there?
Wow has this thread been derailed and trashed any mods here? -
#33 by R.O.R-2.0 on 18 Nov, 2011 10:42
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oh I forgot you know better than the engineers at VAG sorry my bad...
VAG engineers also designed the alternator belt drive. Look how well that works. I prefer tall gears, and great mileage, and I get both. No compromise, which is why I love my A2.
the engineers at VAG obviously know better than anyone else!
yes, i mean, come on! look at the alternator drive setup. thats a perfect example. it worked. that was it. it worked long enough to get the cars out of the factory.
if i lived in a hilly area, like say, oh, the top of big bear mountain in california, then yes, i would have nothing besides a close geared 3.94 trans in my car. but i dont live in san bernadino county, and i dont drive up alot of long hills. all the hills around here, i can pull in 5th gear with my diesel. i could pull hills in 5th even with an ACN bolted to my diesel, i make boost 1000revs sooner than a T3 setup..
ive said it before, and i will say it again im sure:
ACN IS MY FAVORITE TRANS VW EVER MADE. -
#34 by larry104 on 18 Nov, 2011 11:12
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I believe it's pretty flat in NE ohio (like the top of your head maybe?), we're talking about the SF Bay area. Ever been there?
Fisherman's Wharf. Bay Bridge. Yep, been there.
FWIW, I drove the car back from North Carolina when I bought it dead stock with the original AVX trans, which you may know has the tallest of all VW transmission R&Ps: 4.25:1. The car barely got out of it's own way. It was dangerously underpowered; 65 mph with the pedal mashed running up the mountain highways. I vowed right then that I would make it run better, which I have, with help from this site. Gearing is just one performance metric. State of tune is another equally important metric. I've since driven my modded Jetta on those same mountan roads. It easily pulls the tall gears on long, steep grades without downshifiting and runs all day with the left laners at arrestable speeds. Low gears are good for the track or an autocrosser, which that 4.25:1 gear set ended up in. -
#35 by R.O.R-2.0 on 18 Nov, 2011 11:17
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I believe it's pretty flat in NE ohio (like the top of your head maybe?), we're talking about the SF Bay area. Ever been there?
Wow has this thread been derailed and trashed any mods here?
what brought that up? none of us are around ohio..
dont you know, theres no mods running this forum anymore? -
#36 by R.O.R-2.0 on 18 Nov, 2011 11:22
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I believe it's pretty flat in NE ohio (like the top of your head maybe?), we're talking about the SF Bay area. Ever been there?
Fisherman's Wharf. Bay Bridge. Yep, been there.
FWIW, I drove the car back from North Carolina when I bought it dead stock with the original AVX trans, which you may know has the tallest of all VW transmission R&Ps: 4.25:1. The car barely got out of it's own way. It was dangerously underpowered; 65 mph with the pedal mashed running up the mountain highways. I vowed right then that I would make it run better, which I have, with help from this site. Gearing is just one performance metric. State of tune is another equally important metric. I've since driven my modded Jetta on those same mountan roads. It easily pulls the tall gears on long, steep grades without downshifiting and runs all day with the left laners at arrestable speeds. Low gears are good for the track or an autocrosser, which that 4.25:1 gear set ended up in.
the AVX is the LOWEST geared trans, not highest. the ACN type, and F type trannies were the highest geared. you could either get a 3.67 with a .75 5th gear, or a 3.89 with a .71 5th gear..
anyways, the AVX should have been screaming at 65mph..
but, point of the story being, that an ACN trans, or something similar is a PERFECTLY GOOD MATCH for a 1.6TD.
ilikevwdiesel is the only user on the forum that says the high geared trannies are no good for the torquey diesels. but they are fine for the gutless 1.8L 8v engines they came stock behind..
theres some flawed logic somewhere in this derailed topic.. -
#37 by vanbcguy on 18 Nov, 2011 11:29
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I am no techie but I have an acn tranny in my 85td with a t3.
I cruise just around 3000 rpm at 70mph in 5th gear. If I attack with the car for hills, etc. I see like 12 psi boost on the gage with stock setup with the pedal floored. But when cruising like that I don't see much boost at all. Everytime I go to temporarily pass and hit the pedal there is a slight delay then it builds up, boost goes up and the car starts to pull. Not very good in 5th gear with this setup and driving around if you don't want to speed.
That's basically the difference between a K14 and a T3/K24 right there. The K14, being a smaller turbo, will spool faster (ie with less exhaust manifold pressure) than the larger T3/K24 would. I don't know if that's what VW were shooting for with the larger turbo on the older engines or not, but they certainly downsized aggressively from there - the last traditional turbo they used on the even larger 1.9s was a K04, much smaller again than even the K14. I'd bet those little turbos are at full boost by 1500-1800 RPM, so basically full time at highway speed. The big laggy T3 needs more fuel to spool up, which is exactly what you are describing.
Just curious, what size wheels/tires are you running? Are they 13"?Also with some mixed driving I seem to have lost a few mpg ever since I took the original leaking setup off and start fresh with another sealed pump and pop tested rebuilt injectors.
Also I have a little issue when comparing smoke patterns to the original shape of the used and abused car. It smokes more with a little steady cloud of dark trail as the boost comes on and doesn't clear up as the boost peaks.
I think the fuel delivery is set fine. Any less and it loses power. Just a touch more and the revs start to hang.
Could an lda setting help me get rid of my smoke?
Your LDA could be set too aggressively for sure. Assuming you believe your max fuel screw is set correctly, there's three adjustments you can make:
- The 'smoke screw' on top - this sets the initial position of the LDA - if you have smoke before boost kicks in, you can back this off a bit.
- The star wheel - this sets the preload on the LDA. Cranking it up (counter clockwise) increases the spring tension, increasing the amount of boost pressure required to start the pin moving. It will also increase the amount of boost needed to reach any particular point on the pin (I think this is likely where you want to start given the symptoms you are describing)
- Rotating the LDA pin - the pin is cut off center, it can be adjusted to be more or less agressive about adding fuel. Depending if it has been tampered with or not, there is a small 'dot' punched in to the metal plate above the rubber diaphragm. There's also a small notch on the edge of the LDA cover. When that dot is in line with the notch in the cover, the LDA is at its most aggressive ramp. Rotating the dot away from the notch will make the LDA less agressive. Note if anyone has fiddled with the pin, the dot may not be in line with the pin anymore.
Also, what's your timing at? If it's off it can cause lots of smoke. -
#38 by R.O.R-2.0 on 18 Nov, 2011 11:33
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I am no techie but I have an acn tranny in my 85td with a t3.
I cruise just around 3000 rpm at 70mph in 5th gear. If I attack with the car for hills, etc. I see like 12 psi boost on the gage with stock setup with the pedal floored. But when cruising like that I don't see much boost at all. Everytime I go to temporarily pass and hit the pedal there is a slight delay then it builds up, boost goes up and the car starts to pull. Not very good in 5th gear with this setup and driving around if you don't want to speed.
That's basically the difference between a K14 and a T3/K24 right there. The K14, being a smaller turbo, will spool faster (ie with less exhaust manifold pressure) than the larger T3/K24 would. I don't know if that's what VW were shooting for with the larger turbo on the older engines or not, but they certainly downsized aggressively from there - the last traditional turbo they used on the even larger 1.9s was a K04, much smaller again than even the K14. I'd bet those little turbos are at full boost by 1500-1800 RPM, so basically full time at highway speed. The big laggy T3 needs more fuel to spool up, which is exactly what you are describing.
Just curious, what size wheels/tires are you running? Are they 13"?Also with some mixed driving I seem to have lost a few mpg ever since I took the original leaking setup off and start fresh with another sealed pump and pop tested rebuilt injectors.
Also I have a little issue when comparing smoke patterns to the original shape of the used and abused car. It smokes more with a little steady cloud of dark trail as the boost comes on and doesn't clear up as the boost peaks.
I think the fuel delivery is set fine. Any less and it loses power. Just a touch more and the revs start to hang.
Could an lda setting help me get rid of my smoke?
Your LDA could be set too aggressively for sure. Assuming you believe your max fuel screw is set correctly, there's three adjustments you can make:
- The 'smoke screw' on top - this sets the initial position of the LDA - if you have smoke before boost kicks in, you can back this off a bit.
- The star wheel - this sets the preload on the LDA. Cranking it up (counter clockwise) increases the spring tension, increasing the amount of boost pressure required to start the pin moving. It will also increase the amount of boost needed to reach any particular point on the pin (I think this is likely where you want to start given the symptoms you are describing)
- Rotating the LDA pin - the pin is cut off center, it can be adjusted to be more or less agressive about adding fuel. Depending if it has been tampered with or not, there is a small 'dot' punched in to the metal plate above the rubber diaphragm. There's also a small notch on the edge of the LDA cover. When that dot is in line with the notch in the cover, the LDA is at its most aggressive ramp. Rotating the dot away from the notch will make the LDA less agressive. Note if anyone has fiddled with the pin, the dot may not be in line with the pin anymore.
Also, what's your timing at? If it's off it can cause lots of smoke.
thank you for bringing the thread back to its original topic. -
#39 by larry104 on 18 Nov, 2011 11:37
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I believe it's pretty flat in NE ohio (like the top of your head maybe?), we're talking about the SF Bay area. Ever been there?
Fisherman's Wharf. Bay Bridge. Yep, been there.
FWIW, I drove the car back from North Carolina when I bought it dead stock with the original AVX trans, which you may know has the tallest of all VW transmission R&Ps: 4.25:1. The car barely got out of it's own way. It was dangerously underpowered; 65 mph with the pedal mashed running up the mountain highways. I vowed right then that I would make it run better, which I have, with help from this site. Gearing is just one performance metric. State of tune is another equally important metric. I've since driven my modded Jetta on those same mountan roads. It easily pulls the tall gears on long, steep grades without downshifiting and runs all day with the left laners at arrestable speeds. Low gears are good for the track or an autocrosser, which that 4.25:1 gear set ended up in.
the AVX is the LOWEST geared trans, not highest. the ACN type, and F type trannies were the highest geared. you could either get a 3.67 with a .75 5th gear, or a 3.89 with a .71 5th gear..
anyways, the AVX should have been screaming at 65mph..
but, point of the story being, that an ACN trans, or something similar is a PERFECTLY GOOD MATCH for a 1.6TD.
ilikevwdiesel is the only user on the forum that says the high geared trannies are no good for the torquey diesels. but they are fine for the gutless 1.8L 8v engines they came stock behind..
theres some flawed logic somewhere in this derailed topic..
Yes, lowest; you know what I meant. 80 mph tops with a tailwind with the AVX and it sounded ready to gernade. 65 mph up the mountain roads limited by power, not gearing. My point is, even with low gears (ala AVX) the car can still be a dog, which mine was. -
#40 by R.O.R-2.0 on 18 Nov, 2011 11:48
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I believe it's pretty flat in NE ohio (like the top of your head maybe?), we're talking about the SF Bay area. Ever been there?
Fisherman's Wharf. Bay Bridge. Yep, been there.
FWIW, I drove the car back from North Carolina when I bought it dead stock with the original AVX trans, which you may know has the tallest of all VW transmission R&Ps: 4.25:1. The car barely got out of it's own way. It was dangerously underpowered; 65 mph with the pedal mashed running up the mountain highways. I vowed right then that I would make it run better, which I have, with help from this site. Gearing is just one performance metric. State of tune is another equally important metric. I've since driven my modded Jetta on those same mountan roads. It easily pulls the tall gears on long, steep grades without downshifiting and runs all day with the left laners at arrestable speeds. Low gears are good for the track or an autocrosser, which that 4.25:1 gear set ended up in.
the AVX is the LOWEST geared trans, not highest. the ACN type, and F type trannies were the highest geared. you could either get a 3.67 with a .75 5th gear, or a 3.89 with a .71 5th gear..
anyways, the AVX should have been screaming at 65mph..
but, point of the story being, that an ACN trans, or something similar is a PERFECTLY GOOD MATCH for a 1.6TD.
ilikevwdiesel is the only user on the forum that says the high geared trannies are no good for the torquey diesels. but they are fine for the gutless 1.8L 8v engines they came stock behind..
theres some flawed logic somewhere in this derailed topic..
Yes, lowest; you know what I meant. 80 mph tops with a tailwind with the AVX and it sounded ready to gernade. 65 mph up the mountain roads limited by power, not gearing. My point is, even with low gears (ala AVX) the car can still be a dog, which mine was.
OH!! gotcha.. yea, makes sense now..
my car has 3.67 gearing, and its quicker now than it was with 3.94's..
lol, 80mph with a tailwind.. that reminds me of driving a n/a w/ a GC 4 spd.. the best my n/a's will do with stock government, is 83mph, down hill, on the governor. -
#41 by ilikevwdiesel on 18 Nov, 2011 11:55
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u guys are so FOS it's pathetic...get a room already.I believe it's pretty flat in NE ohio (like the top of your head maybe?), we're talking about the SF Bay area. Ever been there?
Fisherman's Wharf. Bay Bridge. Yep, been there.
FWIW, I drove the car back from North Carolina when I bought it dead stock with the original AVX trans, which you may know has the tallest of all VW transmission R&Ps: 4.25:1. The car barely got out of it's own way. It was dangerously underpowered; 65 mph with the pedal mashed running up the mountain highways. I vowed right then that I would make it run better, which I have, with help from this site. Gearing is just one performance metric. State of tune is another equally important metric. I've since driven my modded Jetta on those same mountan roads. It easily pulls the tall gears on long, steep grades without downshifiting and runs all day with the left laners at arrestable speeds. Low gears are good for the track or an autocrosser, which that 4.25:1 gear set ended up in.
the AVX is the LOWEST geared trans, not highest. the ACN type, and F type trannies were the highest geared. you could either get a 3.67 with a .75 5th gear, or a 3.89 with a .71 5th gear..
anyways, the AVX should have been screaming at 65mph..
but, point of the story being, that an ACN trans, or something similar is a PERFECTLY GOOD MATCH for a 1.6TD.
ilikevwdiesel is the only user on the forum that says the high geared trannies are no good for the torquey diesels. but they are fine for the gutless 1.8L 8v engines they came stock behind..
theres some flawed logic somewhere in this derailed topic..
Yes, lowest; you know what I meant. 80 mph tops with a tailwind with the AVX and it sounded ready to gernade. 65 mph up the mountain roads limited by power, not gearing. My point is, even with low gears (ala AVX) the car can still be a dog, which mine was.
OH!! gotcha.. yea, makes sense now..
my car has 3.67 gearing, and its quicker now than it was with 3.94's..
lol, 80mph with a tailwind.. that reminds me of driving a n/a w/ a GC 4 spd.. the best my n/a's will do with stock government, is 83mph, down hill, on the governor. -
#42 by larry104 on 18 Nov, 2011 12:11
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u guys are so FOS it's pathetic...get a room already.
Watch this and learn something...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHVXbKD5IPk
Carry on. -
#43 by ilikevwdiesel on 18 Nov, 2011 12:16
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how much money you have into that rig?
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#44 by R.O.R-2.0 on 18 Nov, 2011 12:16
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u guys are so FOS it's pathetic...get a room already.I believe it's pretty flat in NE ohio (like the top of your head maybe?), we're talking about the SF Bay area. Ever been there?
Fisherman's Wharf. Bay Bridge. Yep, been there.
FWIW, I drove the car back from North Carolina when I bought it dead stock with the original AVX trans, which you may know has the tallest of all VW transmission R&Ps: 4.25:1. The car barely got out of it's own way. It was dangerously underpowered; 65 mph with the pedal mashed running up the mountain highways. I vowed right then that I would make it run better, which I have, with help from this site. Gearing is just one performance metric. State of tune is another equally important metric. I've since driven my modded Jetta on those same mountan roads. It easily pulls the tall gears on long, steep grades without downshifiting and runs all day with the left laners at arrestable speeds. Low gears are good for the track or an autocrosser, which that 4.25:1 gear set ended up in.
the AVX is the LOWEST geared trans, not highest. the ACN type, and F type trannies were the highest geared. you could either get a 3.67 with a .75 5th gear, or a 3.89 with a .71 5th gear..
anyways, the AVX should have been screaming at 65mph..
but, point of the story being, that an ACN trans, or something similar is a PERFECTLY GOOD MATCH for a 1.6TD.
ilikevwdiesel is the only user on the forum that says the high geared trannies are no good for the torquey diesels. but they are fine for the gutless 1.8L 8v engines they came stock behind..
theres some flawed logic somewhere in this derailed topic..
Yes, lowest; you know what I meant. 80 mph tops with a tailwind with the AVX and it sounded ready to gernade. 65 mph up the mountain roads limited by power, not gearing. My point is, even with low gears (ala AVX) the car can still be a dog, which mine was.
OH!! gotcha.. yea, makes sense now..
my car has 3.67 gearing, and its quicker now than it was with 3.94's..
lol, 80mph with a tailwind.. that reminds me of driving a n/a w/ a GC 4 spd.. the best my n/a's will do with stock government, is 83mph, down hill, on the governor.
whats your problem dude? who pissed in your cheerios? you are basically saying that 3.67 gears cant be used with a TD.. or any diesel for that matter! the acn trans is the highest trans VW produced, and came behind the lowest HP engine they ever produced. if it works fine on an engine that has no turbo, and a peak torque at about 3 grand, then WHY THE F**K WONT IT WORK WITH A TD?!
i have a VNT on my engine, i can make boost low enough that i could honestly probably run a TDI trans with its rediculous ratios and still be fine. i could probably still accelerate up any hill..
but seriously? WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM?
you pissed off because we said it can be done?
well guess what, an ACN TRANS IS A GREAT MATCH FOR A TD!!!
you basically claim that a 16v trans is the kind you want behind a diesel.. your F***ING high..
i want high gears, not low gears. i would rather have to shift once in a while, rather than be basically wound out going 80 mph..
anyways, do us all a favor, and remove yourself from this thread. you arent helping it one bit. this is turning into a battle of the opinions..
its been gone over a bazillion times.. the diesels get better mileage with taller trannies, but they suffer some acceleration because of the longer gears. thats mostly only true on stock cars.
anyways, this is completely useless to keep arguing.. i can see you wont accept logic..
what are you trying to accomplish here anyways dude? your just getting all pissed off because we said you are wrong..
you are THE ONLY USER ON THE FORUM, who advises AGAINST using 3.67 gearing. anyone with half of a brain knows that 3.67 gears are better for a diesel. when people ask about tranny swaps, the most common answers are "swap in an ACN/AON/ASF/ACL, because they are easy to find, they came in econo-box jettas and golfs." the next most common response is: "swap in a F series (ff, fn, fh, fj) transmision, they were fairly common in rabbits"
and why are you getting soo mad? an AGS is the almost the same thing as an ACN, but with lower gearing. have you actually ever ran a good running TD with an ACN behind it? because i have, and it is AWESOME. ACN is my favorite stock trans, hands down.
if you are trying to make your diesel feel like a GTI, with short gearing, then by all means, use an AGS, or AVX, or AUG, or whatever..
my diesel was funnest to drive with the AUG in it. but it performed much better with the ACN trans in there. mileage was considerably better too..