Circulating tank heaters

[ToddA1]

I was looking at one for the TDI, and I considered one for my IDI Rabbit.  I'm currently running 2 standard freeze plug heaters, but instant heat and a defrosted windshield would be nice. 

The main question is about the installation, if anyone here, is running one.  For the heater inlet, I was thinking of splicing into the bypass hose that runs from the top pump outlet to the head flange.  Kat's part #28113 would work perfect here.  It's just a 1" tee with 5/8" outlet for the heater.

The heater outlet would be spliced into the feed for the heater core, with the supplied "Y".  I was thinking just after the heater valve to keep the installation as clean as possible.

Any input?

-Todd

[R.O.R-2.0]

its probably going to favor more flow thru the heater core, being hooked up that way.. may not get the engine its self very warm..

maybe its just too early, and im not seeing the way its gonna work, idk.. could be completely wrong..

[mtrans]

I try with 1 GP -nothing,electric 12v is no good,but 110/220 ?
I know water Webasto/eberspacher is OK for that people who can get 110/220v.

[the caveman]

Why not install the side coolant flange from a AHU or ALH TDI. They have 3 glowplugs to warm the coolant so the passangers get warm soon, rather than waiting forever for one of most efficient engines in the world to get up to heat. You could just wire them up with one or more relays to fire one, two or all three

[ToddA1]

Maxfax tried the glow plugs and coolant flange thing.  He said it didn't work too well. 

As a benefit, the heater will also make cold starting easier.  It circulates the coolant via convection, so as long as the heater valve is open, it should heat the coolant in the block and head.

-Todd

[R.O.R-2.0]

Maxfax tried the glow plugs and coolant flange thing.  He said it didn't work too well. 

As a benefit, the heater will also make cold starting easier.  It circulates the coolant via convection, so as long as the heater valve is open, it should heat the coolant in the block and head.

-Todd

those 3 glow plugs have oh, say, like 1.5 square inches of surface area between the 3 of them.. thats not alot of area to be displacing heat.. theres no way these things can work that good.. and as people have already stated from their experineces, that they dont work good, and are not worth the hassle..

[mtrans]

Problem is FLOW,I try to heat Disel/oil in filter with 1 GP and nothing at 10 c,by the way bad idea don`t do it et home(to much heat on smallll area).

[ToddA1]

I don't quite understand....  you're trying to heat the diesel or the oil filter with a GP?  They sell pad heaters that you could attach to the pan, if you wanted to go that route, but you'd still need to be around an outlet. 

I've considered running a second battery, an isolator and an inverter to activate the freeze plug heater via my remote starter.  I figured I'd get around 45 minutes use with one 400w heater, before the battery was depleted.  That would make for an effortless start.

-Todd

[maxfax]

I've used the Katz inline circulating heaters..  They work okay..  As mentioned, pending where you plumb them in you'll either get a warm engine for starting, or warm heat for a bit..  Seems that all the heat added by the heater is long gone before the engine warms up enough to keep you warm and windows clear..  My reasons for trying the GP's in the coolant flange wasn;t so much for better heat, but to warm up everything a tad faster so I could switch to WVO faster..  Still nothing that works real well for that at this point.. 

However I did find a help for the heat and defrost..  Back in the 60's and late 70's rear defrosters were much different than the wires in the glass we have now..  They actually had a small blower mounted in the rear deck with little heating coils in it..  I swiped the heating coils from one of these and mounted in my VW inside the defroster duct...  Doesn't help a whole lot for keeping warm, but it does keep the window clear...

[8v-of-fury]

However I did find a help for the heat and defrost..  Back in the 60's and late 70's rear defrosters were much different than the wires in the glass we have now..  They actually had a small blower mounted in the rear deck with little heating coils in it..  I swiped the heating coils from one of these and mounted in my VW inside the defroster duct...  Doesn't help a whole lot for keeping warm, but it does keep the window clear...

Your so nifty all the time, Brett lol.

[ToddA1]

Well, that's a little disapointing to hear.  

What size heater were you using?  I was looking at a 1500w unit.  I was under the impression that if I heated the core, the heated coolant would flow out and circulate, through the entire system like it's supposed to.  Were you using the same outlet point that I was thinking of?  

Since I'm looking at a heater designed for up to a 25 quart system, I wonder if it's possible to split the outlet to feed both the block and heater core.  Use the lower radiator hose as the feed, and split the outlet to feed the heater core at the original chosen location, and use top bypass hose as the block feed.

I wonder why the TDI guys say the Frost Heaters work, so well.  They mention they're getting full coolant temperature at the gauge, then the temp gauge drops to 3 bars, when started.... just as you mentioned.  From there, it's 5 minutes until they're back to full heat.

-Todd

[maxfax]

Keep in mind that the circulating heaters don;t actually pump the coolant, they work on the age old principal of thermosiphon..  Hot coolant rises, and pushes the cold coolant lower in the system..  That's why they all state to mount them at the lowest possible point..

Now, on the other end of it I should retract some of my negativity..  I only had a 750 watt heater (it was used but free)..  I had the best results with it spliced in between the heater return, and the water pump.. And I always made sure the heater valve was open..

 I will say that if I had a larger (or even a new) heater it probably would have gotten everything warmer... I also had various heat exchangers and the lines running back to the WVO tank that it also had to heat.. On a standard setup, with a larger heater I bet you'll get better results... 

The cooling back down after driving may be the only thing you'll have to worry about...  Blocking off the airflow to the radiator did wonders for me.. A lot may have just had to do with this car.. It has ALWAYS been a cold blooded --- compared to all the others ones I've had.. 

[mtrans]

I don't quite understand....  you're trying to heat the diesel or the oil filter with a GP?  They sell pad heaters that you could attach to the pan, if you wanted to go that route, but you'd still need to be around an outlet. 

OIL,I measured my GP has 600 c(max for my instrum),and nothig,only make problem because oil cooking.
Only way to heat by electric is block heater 110v,I dont have,from 45-90 min as I read.I use pad heaters just for easy start,if you can use 110v for me it`s OK but invertor 1500w/12v=125 Ampere ops,I`ll not say thing about f....g electronic problem?
What about disel air heater in INTAKE,anybody use that?

[ToddA1]

I understand the principles of how it works, that's why I figured my chosen locations would create the perfect loop. My thinking was to pull (input) far away from the output's feed to ensure I'm not reheating what was just heated.  What gets pushed through the core gets pushed back into the engine, and the cycle continues. 

The only thing that I see restricting the flow, would be pushing the colder coolant uphill, back through the firewall.

You used the small hose from the pump to the steel waterpipe?  Was this the inlet or outlet? Where did the other side of the heater go?

In winter, I block the entire face of the radiator with cardboard and I've never see an issue, unless I'm doing a long, 70 mph roadtrip.  If so, the cardboard is adjusted.

Thanks.

-Todd

[maxfax]

Cardboard seems to be a necessity..   I wish I had some sort of louvers that I could open and shut from the inside though..  My daily drive is a long flat road with a mountain at the end.. 

I wish I had pics, I[m so much better with pics.. lol   I'll try to explain...   I had the heater inlet connected to the side of the cyl head..  THen out of the heater core into the metal pipe..  I cut the metal pipe off just below where the expansion tank connected and connected that to the inlet of the heater, then connected the outlet to the water pump..    Pushing the coolant uphill seemed to be no problem for it..  But the more I think about it, I'll bet it was all the other crazy plumbing that was causing me woes..  I had all sort of stuff t-ed in for wvo..