I need sound system education..........

[DieselBalz]

Good call ROR. I found a Kicker 10, JL Audio e1400D and wiring kit on craigslist for 130. As soon as I hooked up the preouts on the Blaupunkt it recognized it and kicked on the highpass. This little setup hits hard. Had to dial it back a bit. Dont need a ton of bass for DMB.

So the system components are:

Blaupunkt head unit - ebay - 85.00
Boston Accoustics 4's in the doors - craigslist 20.00
Polk Audio 5.25s in the rear deck - new retail best buy 80.00
Kicker 10" in factory ported enclosure - craigslist - 65.00
JL Audio e1400D - craigslist  65.00

my 400 dollar kenwood excelon head unit doesnt self sense the amp outputs pass frequency, so i doubt yours does. i imagine you need to read the book and figure out how to set it, or if it has one. im betting it doesnt have one.

the amp has a low pass filter built in tho, so thats why it worked.. im sure whoever had it before you had it set up to drive a sub, so it was set for low pass..

highpass = only high frequencies pass
lowpass = only low frequencies pass

It had to of done something because the level at which the cabin speakers distorted before the sub was installed, is much higher. The knob goes to 64 or something weird like that. The cabin speakers would start distorting at around 40. Now its up to 55.

It sounds great and I don't think I need the high pass filters. Im not entering competitions or tryin to impress anyone, just wanted to correct a deficiency in the oem speaker setup.

[Dirtrag2]

as mentioned earlier, you may have a problem with the speakers requireing too much power to get them going, when buying speakers, a good spec to look at is sensitivity, the higher the number, the less power required to get them going.  ie: a 100w rms capable speaker with 92 db senstivity will sound ok if you throw 30w at it but a 100w rms speaker with 87db sensitivity needs at least 60w rms input to sound right.  as mentioned your head unit puts out around 15 rms when cold and gets worse when hot.

some will argue here, but I have 15 years experience biulding and selling high end systems so I know what works, so here goes... there is no need to go more than 18 ga wire to the speakers, unless you go much more than 100w rms per channel. you will get some loss compared to 16 or 14 ga but not enough to warrant the cost difference.
generally, ambient sound speakers don't require tons of power and are not designed to reproduce sound below 150 hz ( that's where a sub-woofer would step in ) so again the loss is minimal.   for a sub-woofer I do recomend the bigger wire ( I run 10ga to my sub ) because of the higher level of current flowing through the wire.

now on to the catergory of sub placement. the spare tire hole is not the best place for a sub as you can easily damage it by tossing stuff in the trunk, it's very vulnerable sitting there in the middle of the floor!  a good spot that uses otherwise lost space is in the fender well, between the strut tower and trunk wall.  you will have to fabricate a fiberglass box to fit in there but it is well worth the extra trunk space. 

otherwise a 8" self amplified bass cannon doesen't take up too much space and woks well to define sound. ( add bass! )  then you can reduce the amout of bass frequencies sent to the small ambient speakers and get a better all around sound quality.

hope this helps!

[R.O.R-2.0]

as mentioned earlier, you may have a problem with the speakers requireing too much power to get them going, when buying speakers, a good spec to look at is sensitivity, the higher the number, the less power required to get them going.  ie: a 100w rms capable speaker with 92 db senstivity will sound ok if you throw 30w at it but a 100w rms speaker with 87db sensitivity needs at least 60w rms input to sound right.  as mentioned your head unit puts out around 15 rms when cold and gets worse when hot.

some will argue here, but I have 15 years experience biulding and selling high end systems so I know what works, so here goes... there is no need to go more than 18 ga wire to the speakers, unless you go much more than 100w rms per channel. you will get some loss compared to 16 or 14 ga but not enough to warrant the cost difference.
generally, ambient sound speakers don't require tons of power and are not designed to reproduce sound below 150 hz ( that's where a sub-woofer would step in ) so again the loss is minimal.   for a sub-woofer I do recomend the bigger wire ( I run 10ga to my sub ) because of the higher level of current flowing through the wire.

now on to the catergory of sub placement. the spare tire hole is not the best place for a sub as you can easily damage it by tossing stuff in the trunk, it's very vulnerable sitting there in the middle of the floor!  a good spot that uses otherwise lost space is in the fender well, between the strut tower and trunk wall.  you will have to fabricate a fiberglass box to fit in there but it is well worth the extra trunk space. 

otherwise a 8" self amplified bass cannon doesen't take up too much space and woks well to define sound. ( add bass! )  then you can reduce the amout of bass frequencies sent to the small ambient speakers and get a better all around sound quality.

hope this helps!

yes, small speakers do not require the power that a sub, or a GOOD SET of component speakers might need..

and yes, run very efficient speakers if you are only using deck power.. if you got an amp for the speakers, its not going to care if they are as efficient..

i am running small, relatively efficient speakers in my GTI, on deck power, and they do not distort. but then again, high pass filters are set, and the equalizer is set pretty tame on the low end to keep only highs going to the fronts. and thats why they dont distort, because they are efficient enough to use the power i give them, and im not sending the wrong frequencies..

imho, its completely pointless to send any frequencies lower than about 200 hz to anything under a 6x9, or a component system..

[dl_sledding]

there is no need to go more than 18 ga wire to the speakers, unless you go much more than 100w rms per channel.

Agree 100%.  The audio path is an A/C electrical path, at a very low amperage, so does not require all that much circular mills to cover the need of a low power amplifier.

now on to the catergory of sub placement. the spare tire hole is not the best place for a sub as you can easily damage it by tossing stuff in the trunk, it's very vulnerable sitting there in the middle of the floor! 

I've seen this firsthand.  Horrible thing to do to a speaker.

a good spot that uses otherwise lost space is in the fender well, between the strut tower and trunk wall.  you will have to fabricate a fiberglass box to fit in there but it is well worth the extra trunk space. 

...though this takes a little more ingenuity and skill to do.

[monomer]

as mentioned earlier, you may have a problem with the speakers requireing too much power to get them going, when buying speakers, a good spec to look at is sensitivity, the higher the number, the less power required to get them going.  ie: a 100w rms capable speaker with 92 db senstivity will sound ok if you throw 30w at it but a 100w rms speaker with 87db sensitivity needs at least 60w rms input to sound right.  as mentioned your head unit puts out around 15 rms when cold and gets worse when hot.

some will argue here, but I have 15 years experience biulding and selling high end systems so I know what works, so here goes... there is no need to go more than 18 ga wire to the speakers, unless you go much more than 100w rms per channel. you will get some loss compared to 16 or 14 ga but not enough to warrant the cost difference.
generally, ambient sound speakers don't require tons of power and are not designed to reproduce sound below 150 hz ( that's where a sub-woofer would step in ) so again the loss is minimal.   for a sub-woofer I do recomend the bigger wire ( I run 10ga to my sub ) because of the higher level of current flowing through the wire.

now on to the catergory of sub placement. the spare tire hole is not the best place for a sub as you can easily damage it by tossing stuff in the trunk, it's very vulnerable sitting there in the middle of the floor!  a good spot that uses otherwise lost space is in the fender well, between the strut tower and trunk wall.  you will have to fabricate a fiberglass box to fit in there but it is well worth the extra trunk space. 

otherwise a 8" self amplified bass cannon doesen't take up too much space and woks well to define sound. ( add bass! )  then you can reduce the amout of bass frequencies sent to the small ambient speakers and get a better all around sound quality.

hope this helps!

yes, small speakers do not require the power that a sub, or a GOOD SET of component speakers might need..

and yes, run very efficient speakers if you are only using deck power.. if you got an amp for the speakers, its not going to care if they are as efficient..

i am running small, relatively efficient speakers in my GTI, on deck power, and they do not distort. but then again, high pass filters are set, and the equalizer is set pretty tame on the low end to keep only highs going to the fronts. and thats why they dont distort, because they are efficient enough to use the power i give them, and im not sending the wrong frequencies..

imho, its completely pointless to send any frequencies lower than about 200 hz to anything under a 6x9, or a component system..

You want speakers upfront that'll play happy down to 140Hz, atleast. Above 140Hz, sound becomes directional. That's fine and all for a proper L/R-F/B setup, but you don't want to hear that the subs in the far back (delay and all.) This will lead to more booming and less definition.

18gauge or below for cars. You don't run a wire long enough in a car to need bigger wire, unless it's DC (all audio amps output operate on AC!) Voltage drop will occur (think breathing through a straw) in long cable runs (25ft+)


Sensitivity is the spec you want to look at. no point in throwing 1000watts into a speaker thats 85db/watt rated. It takes ten times the power in watts to create a measly 3db, people! jumping from 1watt to 100 watts will get you three db, now that speaker's up to 88db. to get to 91db, you'd need all of the 1000watts of power, and 91 db ain't nothing for output!

I'm personally a fan of folded horns. Lower THD, more sensitivity. Accurate bass. I plan on building a couple more of these: http://billfitzmaurice.net/autotuba.html for my rabbit. A single tang band 8 may not look impressive, but with <200watts RMS powering it, it gets loud and sound great.



A pro sound guy's .02