I need sound system education..........

[rabbitman]

So I bought $60 (amazon) polk audio 150w 4x6 plate speakers (4" round and a 1" tweeter) for the rear of the golf and for front speakers I have 3.5" 150w soundstorms also from amazon for $11. The bass is a joke.

I'm just running 'em off the deck so it's only 50w each and the speakers distort long before my ears hurt, I don't like my music loud if that helps. I don't really care about the fronts since I will send more power to the back anyways.

Why do they distort so easy with so little power to them?

I always thought amps just make things louder but then I've been hearing that it increases sound quality AND can make it louder. Is this true?

Would something like this help, http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-Hi-Fi-Audio-Stereo-Amplifier-Car-Motorcycle-Boat-/110621827623?pt=Car_Amplifiers&hash=item19c1932227

Thanks

[rabbitman]

Or this. http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-4x100w-4-Channel-Power-Amplifier-Amp-Car-Boat-Van-/260775822840?pt=Car_Amplifiers&hash=item3cb77345f8

[CRSMP5]

room is your issue.... i too like simple miusic...

a pai of 5.5" 4 way speakers sound great... but no room for that in a bunny... unless you make holes

my toaster is the 1st car, 22 years driving/building here... that i ever bought a amp and a sub for...

walmart... 90$ pioneer deck, 32$ 12" sub box, pioneer 12" sub for 60ish, sony explode 600w amp 90ish, and 2 5.5" sony explosion 4 way speakers $48ish....

the only audio i have thats better is on my pc...

i gotta find some space saving amps/subs for my other cars now... sadly toaster has more room for the stuff then anything ive ever owned.. even my b3 wagon lacks room for subbox.. much less a place to hide a amp.. i fully use its cargo area..

[theman53]

I think it is your speaker. Polk audio is my favorite especially the mm series, but a 4" speaker is just pretty small. A 5x7, 5.25 or 6.5 round even if the speaker grate is covering some of it would be a better suit for you. I used to try to run a 4" center channel and couldn't do it. It stunk. IMHO speakers smaller than 5" are tweeters only.

Amps do help clean things up. Usually amps will have a better signal to noise ratio than the head unit. Also, the head unit won't heat up as much if it isn't being used for the power.

[rabbitman]

Thanks for the replys.

Yeah I know 4" is tiny but I thought I'd at least be able to get it loud enough to hear easy, I haven't driven the car much but I bet on a gravel road I won't be able to hear much music and for sure no bass.

Maybe I'll have to get a small sub and stick it under the seat, I'm not going to waste cargo space with huge subs and amps.

My main question is, why are the speakers rated for 150w but distort horribly bad with less than 50w?

[ORCoaster]

The speakers may be rated for 150 W peak and something much less for general listening.  I run a simple deck radio with pretty low watts/ channel and I don't have a sound problem.  I use the Rockford Fosgate truck boxes I used to have behind the seat in my F 150 Ford PU.  So I don't lack bass. 

I pulled the back seat out of my Rabbit and off to the sides is just enough room to drop a couple of 4 by 6 duel cone speakers in there.  So all my sound comes from behind me.  The problem is that the car is so noisy with out a decent headliner and insulation that there isn't much reason to try and beef up the sound system without solving the other acoustics first.

So I am working on that too.  Every weekend a little bit.  Unless she gives me a three day project and I only have two to get it done. 

[CRSMP5]

what i wanna find is 15+ year old pioneer subbox that was fitted inside the spare tire... under seat sub box des not exist.. maybe behind seat.. not under..

i think id look for some late cabby door pockets.. think they are 5" rounds in them.. i hate thought of cutting holes in door panels.. BUT oe door pockets.. i think i can live with the result..

for the amp.. you can probally mount that under the seat.. BUT be carefull.. if like most mk1.. the carpet gets wet so the amp would too.. mounting under the glove box is a option.. but only if your 100% positive no water gets there..

i too refuse to give up cargo area for amp/subbox.. why toaster is 1st with as well non of it in cargo area.. got it shoe horned into what id consider "dead space" as using while driving.. a cooler at best would have fit (between front seats).. and well i can fit cooler between my leg and door opening..

LOL.. loud.. imagine a tin box.. with a diesel in it.. funny though.. with my speaker positions.. i can hear music with doors open rollin over speed limit.. just those positions do not exist on normal cars..

[Squidbait]

You don't mention what you're using for a head unit.  While they may say 200W (50W x 4), what you may actually get is about 15W of clean sound before the amps in the head unit start distorting.

How are your speakers mounted?  If there's no sort of enclosure behind them to allow the speaker to pressurize the air, you won't get much volume in the mid-to-low range, so all you'll get is lots of high range from the tweeter, and distortion as you try to get the volume of the mid-ranges to the point where you can hear anything.

Also, what're you running for speaker wire?  If you're using the 18ga stuff that comes with the speakers, or even the stock wiring, you're making it harder for the speakers.

If you're going to go the amp route, hopefully your head unit has line-level outputs.  That way if you get a decent amp, you don't have to worry about filtering the sound through the (likely cheap) output amps in the head unit.

The other things you want to look for in your speakers are throw length and speaker cone stiffness.  The more throw the cone has (and magnet size helps with this) the better bass response you're likely to get.  Also paper cone speakers (like the stock ones) can't put as much oomph into the mid-low frequencies as poly-cone ones can.

That said, speaker-wise, bigger is better (to a point).  If you can't squeeze anything larger into the space you've got, you might want to consider a small sub that you can slip under a seat or into the rear.  If you turn the crossover up on the sub it will fill in some of your lower mid-range as well as rounding out your bass.

[ORCoaster]

I know you can do a small sub in the back and not loose all your cargo area.  My son had a Rabbit and he ran WVO in it.  In the back was an aluminum half barrel that he converted to be a tank with a heater coil in it.  In addition he strapped the amp on  a board that had airspace between it and the board.  It was mounted on the back of the back seat.  He still had room for his sub.  Granted it was small but it still contained a 10 inch, deep throw, monster magnet beast that needed all 300 watts the amp put out. 

As explained above, using a better amp and line outs from the head unit generally give better sound.  You might enclose the speakers.  That is why I like my boxes.  They can be moved around if I need to and they always sound the same.  My son questions my logic for running the bulk in the back when it seems I could get by with some 7 or 8 inch boxes instead.  Might have to go that way.  He may just be looking for me to surplus the Rockfords so he can throw them in his Dodge Ram.  sneaky devil.

[VWCaddy]

In my Caddy, I put a Blaupunkt powered sub-woofer behind the seats and then added high pass filters on the other speakers to filter out the lowest bass frequencies.  Made a huge difference in sound quality.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-4orTQyccxD1/p_023THB200A/Blaupunkt-THb-200A.html



In my old '78 Rabbit, I cut some 6x9 speakers into the rear C-pillar sheet metal.  After making he opening, I sealed off the top and bottom with fiberglass and body filler up and down as far as I could reach.  Those sealed enclosures made for very nice sound quality as I recall.

[R.O.R-2.0]

FWIW, i have a 13" sub in my trunk (all 100 lbs of it) and i still have a decent amount of trunk left..

and an amp really cleans up the sound quality of the front speakers.. it makes them go from "ho-hum" loud, to "omg, my ears are bleeding" loud..

i have pioneer 3.5s in the dash, and kenwood 4x6s in the rear.. 4 speakers is more than enough sound..

you could get away with just fronts if you dont have a big boomin sub to drown them out..

[rabbitman]

Thanks for all the replys guys, it helps a lot .

I have a normal 50Wx4 pioneer HU with line outputs.

The front speakers use the wire that came with them, 20-22 gauge, and they're mounted up by the windshield in the stock location.


The rears speakers have 18 gauge wire running 'em and are mounted in the rear shelves with no enclosure. I had to unsulate the speaker itself from the shelves to reduce the buzzing.

[R.O.R-2.0]

for a mk2, or older, vw, you ned a sub if you want low frequencies.. theres just nowhere to fit decent bass producing speakers, unless you have a jetta..

[clbanman]

Ignore all the "peak" power ratings - usually they are with distortion levels that you can't listen to.  The number you want is the RMS rating.   There is enough of a difference in even how this number is achieved that you can't do direct comparisions, but at least the RMS number will be close and you can listen to it.   The lower the THD (total harmonic distortion) number is, the better.   Your head unit is underpowered, thus the distortion.   Also, as mentioned the 150 watt number on your speakers is peak so doesn't mean much.   Your amp should always provide more power than your speakers can handle, that way the distortion will be kept in check.  Distortion destroys more speakers than high power (if it's clean). 

Check into underseat subwoofers - they are available in both internally amplified or standard versions.

[markdelevo]

i just spent $800 for complete stereo system and very satisfied , tried every single cheap options before to get this point What  i learned is "u will get what u pay for" , and i am not that much reach to buy cheap stuff, my system is full infinity system with retrosound stereo and usb,iphone etc adapters everything.