Try to start Frankenmotor for the first time.....

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

That's interesting, just looked up the DT 50 on Youtube, it certainly looked a reasonable ride.
When did it date from? I grew up with unregulated Gileras, and Garellis IIRC, I thought they were the last of the unrestricted bunch.
Before I was 16 I used to go on the back of my mate's, and we used to speed along the old canal towpath, fall off fall in climb out and laugh.
Those were the days.
Alas he was killed by an elver fisherman!

[regcheeseman]

You must have missed the DT50MX by a couple of years as everything got restricted just before I started to ride
The FS1E was the only pre-restriction bike commonly seen, all the italian exotica had seized or fallen apart long before then.

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

You must have missed the DT50MX by a couple of years as everything got restricted just before I started to ride
The FS1E was the only pre-restriction bike commonly seen, all the italian exotica had seized or fallen apart long before then.

OK now I get the picture. If the FS1E was unrestricted, then you would have loved the 1977 Gilera. IIRC you could get 50 to 60mph  out of it.   After that we moved onto Minis and Hilman Imps...

[regcheeseman]

I've fitted the NA pump up last night, noting the engines cam was a degree or so out - not enough to cause problems?

It was gone 2AM when I finished, as much as I wanted too, I didn't try to start the motor - not sure the neighbours would share my enthusiasm (they are school teachers and on holiday now - I'm the one that HAS to get up for work)

I'm tempted to strip my pump down to the vanes and make sure it's right, just to check, the pulley keyway should line up with the pin in the distributor drive?
Should the spill orrifice align with port 1 on the head too?

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

I've fitted the NA pump up last night, noting the engines cam was a degree or so out - not enough to cause problems?
Nope. Small swings merely shift power band slightly
It was gone 2AM when I finished, as much as I wanted too, I didn't try to start the motor - not sure the neighbours would share my enthusiasm (they are school teachers and on holiday now - I'm the one that HAS to get up for work) 

I'm tempted to strip my pump down to the vanes and make sure it's right, just to check, the pulley keyway should line up with the pin in the distributor drive?
Should the spill orrifice align with port 1 on the head too?
Can't coment  re pump internals, I 'll defer to 'CADman'  however what you mention sounds right. As you have the old pump on the bench, before dismantling, reinstate the pulley, and note the firing order and turn with a spanner, noting the fuel pulse timing relative to the pulley notch. If na pump doesnt help, then pull injectors and attach them to the benched pump and rig up a handle under the pulley bolt and create a 4 at a time spray checker, thus checking your pump with your injectors...

[regcheeseman]

OK, run number two.....

Unknown pump with bits missing, guessed at timing.



 

Interestingly it sucked my aux tank dry in twenty seconds, the other pump didn't - not even close.

Money is on the vane pump.

Now - do I swap the bits onto this pump or do I repair the original....

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

OK, run number two.....

Unknown pump with bits missing, guessed at timing.



 

Interestingly it sucked my aux tank dry in twenty seconds, the other pump didn't - not even close.

Money is on the vane pump.

Now - do I swap the bits onto this pump or do I repair the original....

Told you it was a good engine. However if it was the vane pump, how do you not burn fuel that you are not pumping?

No/little internal pump pressure means no/little dynamic advance. Thus up to 20 degrees crank advance missing I think. Thus way retarded. Vane pumps are so simple, I wonder what is wrong? Stuck or badly scoured? Is that a part you didn't touch in your rebuild?

Strip it down and find problem, then decide...

[regcheeseman]

Pump stripped last night, advance mech was a bit cruddy, maybe not moving as freely as it could but I don't think that was the problem.

I couldn't find my tri-lobular socket, so will have to grind another - therefore I'm stuck until I get the levers out.
I'm really unsure on the whole keyway/pins/spill orifice setup ? it seems as though you get two right and the third is wrong?
I think it's just confusion over terminology on my part but I guess the pin could be anywhere providing that the piston's port is aligned with the correct injector?

I think I'll pull an old pump apart just to confirm exactly what should be lined up where.

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

Do you have a copy of that pump rebulid in pictures, that comes to the surface from time to time?

[regcheeseman]

I do, I posted a link to it yesterday, someone wanting pump rebuild info.

If you want me to email the original with the big photos I can - but it's a big file 20+ Meg originally.

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

I do, I posted a link to it yesterday, someone wanting pump rebuild info.

If you want me to email the original with the big photos I can - but it's a big file 20+ Meg originally.

Not for me you West Country Bumpkin, I thought you might need it LOL.

It struck me that if there was a problem with that vane pump pressure  regulator, it would explain all the symptoms. You know the one by the pump pulley that a part chewed 10mm socket fits. Tapping in might cure it. However my pump was operating well at 18psi at tickover.


Just in case someone takes offence to my rudeness,  I'm also West country, however being in Gloucester, Scottish think I'm English, Londoners think we are in Wales,  Cornish think we are in the Midlands, Midlanders think we are  Bristolians. Welsh think we are on the borders waiting to invade....

[regcheeseman]

you're not 'west country' - you're all 'no marks' cos nobody wants you, even Bristolians will have nothing to do with you and they're mostly scumbags.



(In case anyone else cares to take offence) My entire family live in/originate from Gloucester/Forest of Dean/South Wales/Bristol area, fortunately my parents moved to North Devon to live with turnips.

Ahem...

The pump vanes were nicely jammed solid. They are sorted now and the pump is back together.

It wasn't 180 out.  

I can't run it up until tomorrow night - fingers crossed.

As for the guide.... yep I thought I might need it and printed it out at work to bring home. I grabbed it off the printer as I left without noticing there were 4 pages instead of 11.
When I came to use it earlier I realised my mistake  

[ORCoaster]

I second Mark's comment about checking that pressure regulator.  You need his or some other take off to measure the IP pump pressure to get to the 43-45 lbs at idle.  He mentions his @ 18 psi but his is a special case.  Just like him.

I have an IP gauge installed to watch the pressure under transport and I am surprised at the differences a gear makes.  5th gives me 60 lbs and 4th is 62-3 but the higher RPMs make it much more responsive.  I am hoping to tweak the pump with either fuel additives or the regulator to give me a few more lbs in fifth.  Timing is everything.

[Mark(The Miser)UK]

Come on, this thumb twiddling is killing me

[ORCoaster]

Someone check that smokey garage over there for bodies will ya?