Fixmyvw.com

Author Topic: Power shifting?  (Read 7320 times)

May 04, 2011, 11:47:33 am

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7335
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
Power shifting?
« on: May 04, 2011, 11:47:33 am »
how hard is it on an 020 to power shift?

all my 020s that have been behind a diesel, i can almost never power shift them without grinding. the engine slows down too quick, and it seems like it always grinds.

someone was saying something along the lines of it being better to power shift an 020 than use the clutch? i dont see how its possible?

only time i really power shift alot, is when my clutch disk is slipping.. the clutch disk in my 4runner has been slipping for 60k miles.. lol.


92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #1May 04, 2011, 09:41:29 pm

maxfax

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 2126
Re: Power shifting?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2011, 09:41:29 pm »
Power shifting anything is not really good for the trans, it increases the wear on the brass blocker (syncro) rings, and the shifter forks..... Even if you can get it down to having the throttle in the right place that it doesn't grind (I do it all the time in the Rabbit  :-\)..

Reply #2May 05, 2011, 12:11:15 am

745 turbogreasel

  • Guest
Re: Power shifting?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2011, 12:11:15 am »
the engine slows down too quick,
Don't let off.
I did it a lot on my FF, and had way more engine problems than tranny ones.
*not including shift  rod popoff.

Reply #3May 05, 2011, 01:01:06 am

81 vw pu

  • Guest
Re: Power shifting?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2011, 01:01:06 am »
Back when I had my 66 chevelle with a m22 4-speed I would power-shift it all the time.
The guy I got it from built the tranny and said he ground every other tooth off the brass syncro's.
You could buy the syncro's already done or grind them yourself. They were called slick-slider-syncro's IIRC.
Might work in the vw 020, but I would talk to a good tranny guy first.

Reply #4May 05, 2011, 05:44:07 pm

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7335
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
Re: Power shifting?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2011, 05:44:07 pm »
Back when I had my 66 chevelle with a m22 4-speed I would power-shift it all the time.
The guy I got it from built the tranny and said he ground every other tooth off the brass syncro's.
You could buy the syncro's already done or grind them yourself. They were called slick-slider-syncro's IIRC.
Might work in the vw 020, but I would talk to a good tranny guy first.

muncie M22 is slightly different than a 020 tho..  8)
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #5May 05, 2011, 06:04:30 pm

81 vw pu

  • Guest
Re: Power shifting?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2011, 06:04:30 pm »
Back when I had my 66 chevelle with a m22 4-speed I would power-shift it all the time.
The guy I got it from built the tranny and said he ground every other tooth off the brass syncro's.
You could buy the syncro's already done or grind them yourself. They were called slick-slider-syncro's IIRC.
Might work in the vw 020, but I would talk to a good tranny guy first.

muncie M22 is slightly different than a 020 tho..  8)
Its alot different. My point was a way to make it less harsh on the vw 020 by grinding off every other tooth on the syncros.
It would be less work to just replace a slipping clutch tho, unless it was for a full time drag car.

Reply #6May 05, 2011, 07:57:33 pm

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7335
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
Re: Power shifting?
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2011, 07:57:33 pm »
Back when I had my 66 chevelle with a m22 4-speed I would power-shift it all the time.
The guy I got it from built the tranny and said he ground every other tooth off the brass syncro's.
You could buy the syncro's already done or grind them yourself. They were called slick-slider-syncro's IIRC.
Might work in the vw 020, but I would talk to a good tranny guy first.

muncie M22 is slightly different than a 020 tho..  8)
Its alot different. My point was a way to make it less harsh on the vw 020 by grinding off every other tooth on the syncros.
It would be less work to just replace a slipping clutch tho, unless it was for a full time drag car.

oh, i know what you meant.. but those muncies, you could darn near power shift with your pedal at full throttle and they wouldnt break a synchro ring.. lol..

020 trannies are weak as it is, i want my 020s to last as long as possible. i will stick with using the clutch pedal..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #7May 06, 2011, 09:39:09 am

8v-of-fury

  • Guest
Re: Power shifting?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2011, 09:39:09 am »
Here's the way I see it, pushing the clutch pedal in you un-mate the crank shaft, and the main shaft of the tranny (ie. The trans and engine are now spinning different speeds). When you move the stick out of one gear and towards the next gear the synchros start trying to get that main shaft and the gear you are trying to select to the same speed. Power shifting in theory should make it easier job on the synchros if done correctly.. The trans and engine are always spinning the same speed.. Meaning the synchros don't have much work to do if you spin the trans up yourself via blipping the throttle.

Reply #8May 06, 2011, 11:59:07 am

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7335
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
Re: Power shifting?
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2011, 11:59:07 am »
yes, everything is spinning the same speed while in gear.. but once your out of gear, something is not spinning the same.. thats why you have to change engine rpm..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #9May 06, 2011, 12:47:12 pm

8v-of-fury

  • Guest
Re: Power shifting?
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2011, 12:47:12 pm »
Right... but what the synchro's do (spin the mainshaft of the tranny, and the engine together) is already spinning together. You vary the throttle so that the driven gear and the rest of the transmission mesh. As long as your not grinding gears and slamming them home.. I don't see any more wear on the synchros happening versus using the clutch.. I mean sure one could argue why powershift when you have a clutch? Why not? ;) Why try and get power out of a diesel? Why not :D

Reply #10May 06, 2011, 12:55:14 pm

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7335
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
Re: Power shifting?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2011, 12:55:14 pm »
VWs power shift, yes..

they dont power shift very well tho.. thats what im saying..

my other vehicles, without shift linkages, power shift fine. but VWs being that they have shift links, it doesnt work so well..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #11May 06, 2011, 01:17:03 pm

8v-of-fury

  • Guest
Re: Power shifting?
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2011, 01:17:03 pm »
I agree there, with sloppy linkages/bushings it would be a hard feat. And yes a trans where you are directly moving the trans like a rwd trans would be much better candidate for power shifting.

Reply #12May 06, 2011, 01:23:49 pm

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7335
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
Re: Power shifting?
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2011, 01:23:49 pm »
I agree there, with sloppy linkages/bushings it would be a hard feat. And yes a trans where you are directly moving the trans like a rwd trans would be much better candidate for power shifting.

on my toyota, being RWD, and a direct shift trans, i can power shift that thing like nobodys business.. did so for over 60k miles.. that thing was set up PERFECT for power shifting..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #13June 08, 2011, 01:19:06 am

mystery3

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 774
Re: Power shifting?
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2011, 01:19:06 am »
I may have my terminology wrong but this thread is about rev matching and shifting without the clutch. Power shifting is when you use the clutch like a normal shift but unlike a normal shift you don't let off the accelerator thus applying power through the shift. If you rev match correctly it doesn't take any power at all to shift without the clutch.

Reply #14June 08, 2011, 10:11:22 am

CRSMP5

  • Guest
Re: Power shifting?
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2011, 10:11:22 am »
everyone with a 020 should learn this along with starting it in 2nd gear with no clutch pushed...

why.....

when cable breaks or pedal assembly breaks on a mk1...

it will get you home without a tow....

there is right/wrong ways...

do not force it.. it will slide like butter if done right... start practice in 3rd to 4th.. easiest one to do.. around town i tend to never use clutch in 3rd to 4th.. just falls in.. really does..

 

S-PAutomotive.com