Machine shop tells me that they have to go .040 over not .020 is that legit?????

[mtnbob]

ok cool ty

[Dakotakid]

Well....this brings up an interesting point, indeed.
For years, I've quietly sat and read the tales of many of these guys who hone and rering these blocks and then state, "...oh ya...those rings really seated right up and no oil consumption....."

Funny thing...I have YET to see a used VW diesel block/engine come apart and CLEARLY not be out of round and genuinely require a fresh bore and set of pistons. This is on engines I personally ran and those engines which came out of tow-yard or abandoned/otherwise sold cars. And, THAT is either good ol' German cast iron (with a slightly higher nickle content) or not-so-good ol" Brazilian (God only knows what is in there...) cast iron.

Now, have I ever seen one so out-of-round that a 0.020 bore would not cure it's ails.....no. However, I think it is possible.

So....sorry to cast an extremely jaded eye at all of you "ringers" out there....but, I think there are a lot of long noses in the mix!!!!!!!!

EDIT: But, I DO believe it is possible to do a rering and "live." However, I think this needs to be performed "early" before the engine is hard to start or before oil consumption begins to come into play. In other words, while you legitimately still have a round bore to work with. Just me quiet take.....

[fatmobile]

Sounds like a good machinist to me.
 
 Mine explained that with very little metal left to remove;
 the cutter can skip across the surface.

 He has needed to hone to the next size on a couple blocks.

[mtnbob]

 To agree with Dakota and Fat, I had a hone and rering done to my 1.6 N/A a few years ago. The mech said that I might get 20,000 miles out of it, I might get 50,000. I am approaching 50,000 right now. But it wasn't that bad when it was honed, and I used good rings.

 And that is what they were basically saying at the machine shop about the lack of material left to do a proper bore if I tried to do a .020 overbore, I just wasn't sure how to explain what they told me. I feel better about the whole thing after hearing from a few of you, thanks.

[Dakotakid]

Your sins are forgiven, my son. For panance say one Lord's prayer and........

[mtnbob]

........I have to finish this rebuild by Christmas, so I can start on my 1.6 N/A rebuild

[Baron VonZeppelin]

Bob, i forgot what this TD engine is going into ?

And is it Mech or Hyd ?

Is it the one you got from Ontario ?

[mtnbob]

Yes it is the one i picked up from Tyler before he moved. Hydraulic head and head gasket looks almost like new, but the block looks like someone tried to just re-ring it and wore it out pretty good. It still had the stock size pistons in it when I got it. Awesome deal from Tyler BTW! He told me that I was taking my chances when I got it, and it is at least better than I expected

[mtnbob]

BTW this is what I bought last night  Not sure if I got it completely right, but it is a good start, and I couldn't beat the prices


KS Piston .040 OS w/Rings Item Number: VOL017560   4   $66.80   $267.21

CRP Oil Cooler O-Ring Item Number: VWW063734   1 $1.56    $1.56

Reinz Complete Engine Gasket Set Item Number: VWW008677 1   $52.56   $52.56

Elring Intermediate Shaft O-Ring Item Number: VWW004170 1   $0.96   $0.96

Mahle Air Filter Item Number: VWW089015 1   $5.81   $5.81

Meyle Fuel Filter Item Number: VWW082475 1   $11.40   $11.40

Mahle Oil Filter Item Number: VWW088971 1   $5.03   $5.03

Febi Flywheel Bolt Item Number: VWW042982 6   $1.63   $9.77

Febi Crankshaft Bolt Item Number: VWW047774 1   $1.72   $1.72

Glyco Main Bearing Set Item Number: VWW065914 1   $38.09   $38.09

Glyco Main Bearing Thrust Washer Set Item Number: VWW065916 1   $12.66   $12.66

Mahle Piston Pin Bushing Item Number: VWW008715 4   $3.07   $12.28

Mahle Rod Bearing Set Item Number: VWW048040 1   $11.24   $11.24

Meyle Freeze Plug Item Number: VWW079736 4   $0.46   $1.85

Reinz Cylinder Head Gasket Item Number: VWW008601 1   $25.18   $25.18

CRP Operating Shaft Seal Item Number: VWW056004 1   $1.18   $1.18

Sachs Clutch Kit Item Number: VWW055678 1   $86.08   $86.08

[maxfax]

You probably should have waited until you had the pistons installed and where able to measure the protrusion before ordering the head gasket..  If that's the 3 notch gasket you'll be okay as far as clearance but you'll have slightly less than optimum combustion going on..  IN all honesty, with a fresh engine you'll probably never notice, but just for the sake of knowing, measure the piston protrusion before putting the head on...

Otherwise the list looks good, 'cept you're forgetting the Giles pump on that list..   

[mtnbob]

Hmmmm I went with the same size head gasket as what was on there, a 2 notch. I have a Giles pump on my N/A motor and I love it, but I have a td pump that is supposed to be useable. We will see how it goes and what is left of my budget after all this stuff I am rounding up. Gotta see if I can get this Turbo cleaned up too!!!

[maxfax]

Measure to be sure.. You got a 1 of 3 chance it'll be right..    Typically having the block surfaced is what changes this, but the new pistons could be a tad different and change it one way or the other as well..  From experience I've never had it happen, even with the prothe pistons, but valves smacking those shiny new pistons would suck....

 

[mtnbob]

Thank you for the heads up. I am replacing original pistons with Kolberschmidts(spelling?) and not doing anything to the head at all. It was beautiful, no cracks between the valves, and looked like new.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11904434@N05/5010545314/in/set-72157624712966321/

[Toby]

Now, have I ever seen one so out-of-round that a 0.020 bore would not cure it's ails.....no. However, I think it is possible.

So....sorry to cast an extremely jaded eye at all of you "ringers" out there....but, I think there are a lot of long noses in the mix!!!!!!!!

EDIT: But, I DO believe it is possible to do a rering and "live." However, I think this needs to be performed "early" before the engine is hard to start or before oil consumption begins to come into play. In other words, while you legitimately still have a round bore to work with. Just me quiet take.....

Experience would suggest otherwise. I have ringed about 25 NA rabbit diesel engines and a smattering of 5000s and a couple of TDs. Every one that did not get wrecked by the next owner was doing just fine with reasonable oil consumption at 100K. Cast iron rings are just begining  to have the compression drop off at that point. As long as the bore is just worn and not pitted or scratched too badly this is just a non problem. It does take reaming the ridge and a careful hone but not much else. That being said I have seen a couple of blocks that had clearly been run without air filters and had badly worn bores that made reringing a poor idea.

FWIW I have probably done 100 ring jobs on various vehicles and the only one with oil consumption problems is my '86 Ranger TD that has a goofy tapered compression ring on top and the ring lands appeared to be a bit worn. At least the new rings were pretty sloppy. The next one that I do will likely have the top ring lands cut for straight rings. (AFIK oversize pistons are not available for these)

[fatmobile]

I put new pistons in my block,.. put it all together,.. just to find they didn't stick up high enough.
 Had to take it all back apart and have them deck it.