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Author Topic: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods  (Read 32494 times)

Reply #45February 25, 2011, 11:13:58 am

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2011, 11:13:58 am »
All,

    Part of the reason I stayed up was to talk to John at Air Cooled Engines.  All I got was static an an answering machine.  If anyone can assist by passing along my email info I would be grateful.

And in my business, you can't let things get to you.  Look at the photo.  As long as it ain't pointed at me.......  So, I can take criticism. 

    I have done several gassers from A to Z but this is my first diesel build.  Going in  a '93 Tracker, with 31s, 5 speed, 2 door with hardtop.  Mileage has to be better than stock 20mpg with 4.62 diffs, 1.6L gas (249,000mi), 205 / 75s, and 3 speed auto.  Runs almost 5K rpm at 70mph on the interstate.

    With the diesel, looking to stay 2500-2750rpms with 5 speed, 31s and 4.30s. For offroad, putting lower gears in the transfer so as not to snap anything.

Again, are the cams the same...1.6 / 1.9?
1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #46February 25, 2011, 11:30:47 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2011, 11:30:47 am »
All,

    Part of the reason I stayed up was to talk to John at Air Cooled Engines.  All I got was static an an answering machine.  If anyone can assist by passing along my email info I would be grateful.

And in my business, you can't let things get to you.  Look at the photo.  As long as it ain't pointed at me.......  So, I can take criticism. 

    I have done several gassers from A to Z but this is my first diesel build.  Going in  a '93 Tracker, with 31s, 5 speed, 2 door with hardtop.  Mileage has to be better than stock 20mpg with 4.62 diffs, 1.6L gas (249,000mi), 205 / 75s, and 3 speed auto.  Runs almost 5K rpm at 70mph on the interstate.

    With the diesel, looking to stay 2500-2750rpms with 5 speed, 31s and 4.30s. For offroad, putting lower gears in the transfer so as not to snap anything.

Again, are the cams the same...1.6 / 1.9?

sounds like you got the tranny with the super low gear set in it..

my dads tracker had that kinda trans in it before i replaced it, the one i put in dropped the engine 400 rpms at 60 mph..

and the gear set in your transfer case is not going to fix anything..

the shaft that the engine hooks up to, the input shaft. the shaft that has splines, and holds the clutch disk.. you know, that shaft in the middle of the bell housing? thats the input shaft. all the engines torque has to go thru that shaft. and its IIRC that shaft is no bigger than 3/8" or so, its just TINY..

a billet input shaft would fix the transmission. im pretty sure the transfer case is not the weak point.

only reason im saying any of this is because when i thought about swapping my dads tracker, lots of people told me to swap the stock tranny out too..

stock trans works great if you bolt up a n/a in front of it. but your engine is going to be more power than the stock engine, and probably about twice as much torque.
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #47February 25, 2011, 11:45:58 am

8v-of-fury

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2011, 11:45:58 am »
Also to add on to the belief that the "double the torque" will be possible, of course it will, unlike our gasser brethrens we don't need rpms to make power. Sure your hp might never top 110... but what does that matter when your making 150-175tq? HP is just tq * rpm... Hp means practically nothing to a diesel engine. Ever notice why they never boast hp ratings of diesel? Because its always like %25-35 less than tq numbers. The stock TD will match your old motor for torque. The pump mods, aaz head, intercooler, upping fuel (and thus boost)... And 150tq will be yours with minimal effort.

Reply #48February 25, 2011, 12:09:34 pm

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2011, 12:09:34 pm »
some of the bigger diesels, like the duramax and cummins make 2x the torque than that of the power they make..

1000hp duramax usually has around 2000 ft lbs of twist..

direct injection engines usually have a 2:1 tq to power ratio

indirect injection engines usually have ~1.5:1 tq to power

gassers usually run pretty close to 1:1 tq to power..

(this is not the law of the land, just some observations)
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #49February 25, 2011, 02:38:51 pm

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2011, 02:38:51 pm »
All,

    Well, I was putting the 4.24:1 gearset in the transfer case as I have replaced the 4.62 diff gears front and rear with 4.30s.  This is to get the rpm down below 4,000.  However, it also places more strain and torque on the drivetrain.  Not so much on the highway that I am worries as I am also putting in 30% stronger axles, and I am sure the drivetrain can take it as long as I do not go crazy with the torque and fuel settings. 

    So, to help take some strain off of it while offroad, I was putting in the 4.24:1 redution gears....kinda like going from 7th gear on a 10 speed to 3rd gear.  Better than factory, anyhow.

    And for the life of me, and 2 hrs spent on Google, I cannot find the specs on the Isuzu made Tracker tranny.  Does anyone know what the max input torque rating actually is......printed!?  I can tell you it is a VIT5-B.

    I have to be getting old...can't find a darn thing anymore. :-\
1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #50February 25, 2011, 03:50:13 pm

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2011, 03:50:13 pm »
i have seen it in print with my own 2 eyes. the max rating is 130 ft lbs for a tracker/sammi trans..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #51February 26, 2011, 12:29:48 am

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2011, 12:29:48 am »
OK,

     So let me understand....to maximize the power out of the 1.6L NA, 1.6 NA converted to a 1.6 TD or 1.6 / 1.9 combo, I would have to go with the Toyo L56 or W53 tranny and its transfer case or otherwise shred the stock Tracker tranny gears?  What model tranny would be most available / cheapest / best to use?  Do you know of anyone who has put one in a Tracker?  I am registering at BBS. Zuwharrie.com as we speak to get their experience on this kind of swap.

    This creates all kinds of problems.  Not only lots of transmissions / parts building up I would not be able to use, but also for speedo hookup, trans mounting, transfer case drive shaft hookup...

    Would mean I have to get another adapter bracket.  I would have  excess:  1 ea 3L30 w/transfer case, 1 ea 5 speed manual w/transfer case, 1 ea 1.6L gas engine.  Not good.  I would start getting in trouble with the law for improper fencing of a junkyard!!!

    Most importantly, does the Toyo transfer case and the Tracker transfer case both drop on the same side????

Bob
1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #52February 26, 2011, 02:19:29 am

nathan_b

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2011, 02:19:29 am »
Just buy a volkswagen  ;D
81 caddy frankentd 02a, 99.9 tdi jetta, 00 golf

Reply #53February 26, 2011, 10:01:14 am

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2011, 10:01:14 am »
All,

    I have gone so far as to see what the price is to have the input, output shafts and gears nitrided, hardened and cryo treated for added strength.  Gotta be cheaper than putting an all new (or used) driveline in it.  Have to pay $799 if I want the new transfer case from a Toyota to exit on the left side like a Tracker t case.  That is for the adapter kit to rotate it, not including the cost of the used tranny, rebuild kit, transfer case cost.....

Bob
1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #54February 26, 2011, 10:36:03 am

theman53

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2011, 10:36:03 am »
I am a little more wife experienced than some on here....

    Tell the wife that you want to do the beefy trans setup and its costs. Let her say no blah blah blah, whatever. Start saving  ;), run the tracker stuff until it explodes and makes all sorts of funny noises. Then tell the wife this is why you wanted to do it in the first place and since you are so far along you have to get the beefier setup now. In the meantime research and look for the best deals as you have time. Find someone who maybe interested in your current conversion kit and let him know it maybe a bit so you can unload it after getting some use out of it.

Not saying that I know anyone that has done this, but look at my build thread that took 3 years...it is in my signiture line below  ;D

Reply #55February 26, 2011, 01:52:32 pm

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2011, 01:52:32 pm »
All,   

    What is the stock tq rating for the L52 and W56 Toyo trannies?  Would hate to go all out on the 1.6 and it be more than even the W56 can take and go through having to upgrade again.  This is quickly getting expensive.

    Wondering if the new diffs (4.30s) will take the max torque and the 31" tires added?  I will have my 4.62s it was born with as backup.  As I said, going with +30% stronger axle shafts in the rear so that will be one less thing to break.

Man53....the welding fire was hilarious!!  ;D   Been through some incidents like that but iI always tell everyone it happened to a friend of mine to protect the guilty!

Bob

 
1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #56February 26, 2011, 02:26:20 pm

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2011, 02:26:20 pm »
well, im not sure what the G52 and W56 trannies are actually rated for, but i know they will take it. ive had a tracker trans, and various toyota pickup trannies apart. the toyota trannies are some of the toughest import trannies ive layed hands on..

i have a few different friends with 350 chevy V8s in front of stock toyota 4 cylinder trannies.. they live as long as you dont drop the clutch at 7000 rpms..

if you are worried about it, get a R150 or R151 tranny.. they came in V6 and turbo 4 cyl toyotas, and are much tougher than the n/a 4 cyl trannies.

i would say that the input shaft on a toyota tranny, is 5 or 6 times tougher than a tracker input shaft, easily, hands down.

like i say, all the shafts in a tracker trans look more like tooth picks than transmission parts.
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #57February 26, 2011, 02:56:36 pm

theman53

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2011, 02:56:36 pm »
All,   

    What is the stock tq rating for the L52 and W56 Toyo trannies?  Would hate to go all out on the 1.6 and it be more than even the W56 can take and go through having to upgrade again.  This is quickly getting expensive.

    Wondering if the new diffs (4.30s) will take the max torque and the 31" tires added?  I will have my 4.62s it was born with as backup.  As I said, going with +30% stronger axle shafts in the rear so that will be one less thing to break.

Man53....the welding fire was hilarious!!  ;D   Been through some incidents like that but iI always tell everyone it happened to a friend of mine to protect the guilty!

Bob

 
Your diffs will be fine. BUT another reason why the trans may not like the new torque. If they are beefy and the trans is not then it will only have one place to break.
I would run it and see how long the trans lasts. You never know when someone was having a good day in the foundry/machine shop. You could get lucky and run it for years. I have welded a stub axle in a bronco with 38.5 tall swampers on it, 4.56 gears, 400 built well, and it is holding 3 plus years. I replaced that same stub axle 5 times with new and junkyard...so far this is best. Never know till you try. And keeps the wife a little more happy.

Reply #58February 27, 2011, 12:15:42 pm

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #58 on: February 27, 2011, 12:15:42 pm »
exactly what i was getting at, the transmission being the weakest link of the drivetrain..

the input shaft of the trans is going to be the first piece to break, its for sure the smallest and weakest part in the drivetrain.

the only reason im saying any of this, is because i have a fairly large background in offroading.. and i know about sammi's and trackers, and there weak points, idk how many trackers/sammi's ive pulled out of ruts because of broken input shafts. my friend used to have a lifted, hot rod Sammi (with a tracker trans), and he used to go thru a transmission every month or so, or 1 good weekend if we went sorta hard on it.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 12:23:23 pm by R.O.R-2.0 »
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #59February 27, 2011, 12:37:35 pm

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #59 on: February 27, 2011, 12:37:35 pm »
All,

    I have contacted several metalworking places about the possibility of heat treating the tranny input shaft then cryo treating it to make it stronger by getting rid of weak spots (stress points)  in the metal.  It can be done for under $100.00.  It is good insurance when I rebuild the tranny.  As long as i do not go overboard on HP / TQ, should hold.  We will have to see.  We will not be mudding or anything, just going over back woods trails, creek beds, streams...no rock crawling.  When I have it apart, I can also take it up to a machine shop and see how much to have one made out of 300M.  Still has to be cheaper than a whole new driveline.

    Like Theman53 said, if it grenades, tell the wife I knew we should have went with the Toyo upgrades!

Bob
1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

 

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