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Author Topic: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods  (Read 32494 times)

Reply #30February 25, 2011, 12:20:10 am

nathan_b

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2011, 12:20:10 am »
cant comment on hp numbers but I have a 1.6/1.9 rabbit pickup running 1.6 pump and injectors and an aaz k14 turbo.

Boost is around 17psi. Pump is stock with a light gov mod and a bit of general tuning, boost pin rotated, smoke screw all the way in. I regulate boost with my right foot because the wastegate is stuck shut... I need to do that and add an intercooler then this thing will really be scooting. Funny thing though, even with the fuel screw in until the idle just barely won't hang it still won't smoke.

It is around 10-11s 0-60mph, and will end a 0-60 pull with like 700f egts... It cruises 65mph with 600F egt/ 55mph at 575 egt.

It makes 50mpg on the dot in a rabbit pickup on the highway, somewhere around 38-45 with a ton of in town driving... that and I pretty much put my foot to the floor in every gear every time. ;D

For those who have driven a diesel mk1, I passed a car on the dotted line section of a 2 lane highway without down shifting from 5th. hit about 75mph in less than 10s from 55mph cruising.

I got 740miles out of 13.75 gallons on a straight highway drive at 55-60 steady mph. Nearly 54mpg

makes great heat always within 3min of driving. seriously, I don't see how people have this setup and can't get it to start in the winter, it starts better than most straight 1.6s I've worked on, under no conditions do I ever rotate the engine even 1 full rotation before it starts. I don't even have to glow the plugs but 3s when it's cold. it starts just as well as if yoiu glow them for 10s. (fast glow). One time when it was right at 0f and the car had sat for 3-4 days I started it, it ran rough for 3-4 fires then stalled. Pulled out cold start cable and resterted and fired first hit of key and ran fine. That is the absolute EXTENT of the hard starting when cold hybrid "problem." Oh, and that was with no block heater.

I have a 2.25in straight down pipe for now.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 12:22:19 am by nathan_b »
81 caddy frankentd 02a, 99.9 tdi jetta, 00 golf

Reply #31February 25, 2011, 05:09:09 am

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2011, 05:09:09 am »
All,

     I am on the fence on whether to get a $425 1.9 head with about $500 work of port, polish work or just keep my 1.6L head and do like Theman53 and get Air Cooled to open mine up with larger valves (37 / 33), port and polish.  Must think about this for a little while.  I like the frankenmotor idea.

Bob
1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #32February 25, 2011, 05:45:15 am

Bugsy_malone 666

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2011, 05:45:15 am »
cant comment on hp numbers but I have a 1.6/1.9 rabbit pickup running 1.6 pump and injectors and an aaz k14 turbo.

Boost is around 17psi. Pump is stock with a light gov mod and a bit of general tuning, boost pin rotated, smoke screw all the way in. I regulate boost with my right foot because the wastegate is stuck shut... I need to do that and add an intercooler then this thing will really be scooting. Funny thing though, even with the fuel screw in until the idle just barely won't hang it still won't smoke.

It is around 10-11s 0-60mph, and will end a 0-60 pull with like 700f egts... It cruises 65mph with 600F egt/ 55mph at 575 egt.

It makes 50mpg on the dot in a rabbit pickup on the highway, somewhere around 38-45 with a ton of in town driving... that and I pretty much put my foot to the floor in every gear every time. ;D

For those who have driven a diesel mk1, I passed a car on the dotted line section of a 2 lane highway without down shifting from 5th. hit about 75mph in less than 10s from 55mph cruising.

I got 740miles out of 13.75 gallons on a straight highway drive at 55-60 steady mph. Nearly 54mpg

makes great heat always within 3min of driving. seriously, I don't see how people have this setup and can't get it to start in the winter, it starts better than most straight 1.6s I've worked on, under no conditions do I ever rotate the engine even 1 full rotation before it starts. I don't even have to glow the plugs but 3s when it's cold. it starts just as well as if yoiu glow them for 10s. (fast glow). One time when it was right at 0f and the car had sat for 3-4 days I started it, it ran rough for 3-4 fires then stalled. Pulled out cold start cable and resterted and fired first hit of key and ran fine. That is the absolute EXTENT of the hard starting when cold hybrid "problem." Oh, and that was with no block heater.

I have a 2.25in straight down pipe for now.


Just out of interest did you 1.6 start life as a TD or an NA?

Its just I am looking for something in the way of what you describe how it drives (quick and 45mpg) but my base like the OP of this thread is a 1600NA engine so done have the boost barnicle on the fuel pump, just a stock NA pump.

I want to try and get 90bhp 140lbs.ft out of an NA lump but will be mating mine to golf gearbox so wont have the issues of breakage (probably going to hunt a TDi box down) keeping EGT low may be an issue but sounds like you have it sussed!

Reply #33February 25, 2011, 08:09:15 am

nathan_b

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2011, 08:09:15 am »
its a real Td block. It is the same engine from Myke_W's td 90 jetta coupe (that is now a full on tdi), although it is significantly detuned. No more giles super-pump. If I had to throw out a conservative guess, I would say 85hp, non intercooled and with the fuel turned down to compensate for a stuck wastegate because I work so much there's not a spare minute to work on the pickup. Good thing it never breaks!
81 caddy frankentd 02a, 99.9 tdi jetta, 00 golf

Reply #34February 25, 2011, 09:58:08 am

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2011, 09:58:08 am »
All,

    What are the numbers (lift / dur) between Dr Diesel, Giles an Colt?  Prices for each?  What are the specs and anyone have improvement numbers?

Bob
1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #35February 25, 2011, 09:58:42 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2011, 09:58:42 am »
All,

    Just trying to get ballpark numbers for HP / TQ.

Man:  You had Air Cooled Engines Port, polish your head among other things.  What do you think your HP / TQ numbers are right now?  Does he have a website or an email address?  Hard to call from over here.  I would like to ask him the cost of working on a 1.9 head.  Close to what you had done but just a bit more.

Anyone who has done the 1.9head on a 1.6 block, what did it improve your numbers to? 

Factory specs:
VW 1.6 Normally Aspirated diesel (CR, JK, ME): 52 HP and 71 ft lbs torque
VW 1.6 TurboDiesel (CY, MF): 68 HP and 98 ft lbs torque
Geo Tracker 1.6 Gas TBI: 80 HP and 94 ft lbs torque

As you can see, with the gasser in the Tracker right now I have 80HP, 94ft/lbs and I am putting in an ME block (52HP, 71ft/lbs) but I am installing a turbo and pump upgrades so at least I should get near 68HP, 98ft/lbs.  Will putting the 1.9 head on allow it to put out 100HP+ an 125ft/lbs?  That would be more than enough in my book.  Anything above that is icing on the cake. bits in the bottom of the transmission case..

Bob

here, let me fix that for you.

if stock transmissions only last ~100k behind a stock gutless 1.6, then its really gonna have its life expectancy shortened behind something with lots of torque..

92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #36February 25, 2011, 10:01:48 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2011, 10:01:48 am »
All,

     I am on the fence on whether to get a $425 1.9 head with about $500 work of port, polish work or just keep my 1.6L head and do like Theman53 and get Air Cooled to open mine up with larger valves (37 / 33), port and polish.  Must think about this for a little while.  I like the frankenmotor idea.

Bob

AAZ head allows you to run more boost safely..

and why are you worried about cold starts? you are in kentucky!

you really dont need to port the intake side.. the exhaust side is where most of the gains are..

and with an AAZ head, it has bigger valves, and intake ports than a 1.6 head.

an AAZ head is pretty much like having a semi-race prepped head on your 1.6...
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #37February 25, 2011, 10:03:01 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2011, 10:03:01 am »
All,

    What are the numbers (lift / dur) between Dr Diesel, Giles an Colt?  Prices for each?  What are the specs and anyone have improvement numbers?

Bob

it was said that you get between 3-6% more power with the cams..
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #38February 25, 2011, 10:10:38 am

theman53

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2011, 10:10:38 am »
BTW, I would think most cold start problems, if any, could be negated with a block heater and pimped glow plugs. The block heater would do you great from home, and the abililty to run glow plugs longer should help you if you have trouble.
If Kentucky is anything like Ohio, it does get cold Kevin ;D

Reply #39February 25, 2011, 10:17:35 am

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2011, 10:17:35 am »
All,

    Thanks for the info.

ROR-  You definitely make me laugh at the "bits in the tranny."

VW 1.6 Normally Aspirated diesel (CR, JK, ME): 52 HP and 71 ft lbs torque
VW 1.6 TurboDiesel (CY, MF): 68 HP and 98 ft lbs torque
Geo Tracker 1.6 Gas TBI: 80 HP and 94 ft lbs torque

It just seems from factory specs, that it would be hard given fuel mods, port / polish and a few other thing to DOUBLE the factory power output and be capable of shredding the tranny.  From the stock NA I would have to gain +60HP and +52ft/lbs to come close to tranny issues.....and that would mean that I would have DOUBLED the factory HP rating and increased TQ by 66%!  Just hard to believe, that is all.

I will have to step it up gradually to make sure I do not shred the trans.  Maybe but a Gtech to see how much each thing bumps it up.

The adapter kit may only be $425....but then there is the new 22R tranny and transfer case.  Meaning I would have an adapter kit ($600.00), a 5 speed tranny+ transfer case ($375 junkyard), and a 3 speed auto in it with less than 20k on it ($700 from Autozone) that will now be paperweights.  Not conducive to wife happiness for parts that have een bought to be lying around unused or sold for a loss. :o
1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #40February 25, 2011, 10:20:06 am

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2011, 10:20:06 am »
All,

    BTW, it has been snowing regularly in KY lately...haven't you heard about global warming? ;D
1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #41February 25, 2011, 10:28:57 am

Armyhelopilot

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2011, 10:28:57 am »
BTW,

    Grid heater an glows should work ok to negate the cold start. 

    Now, where to get a decent 1.9 head?  Also, what valves (larger) will work in the exhaust side, as the intake is already 2mm larger than the 1.6 NA or TD?  Are the 1.9 cam and the 1.6 cam identical?

    Now that means none of my exhaust will bolt up right.  1.9 and 1.6 have different patterns, correct?

The earlier AAZ heads has 8mm valve stems:          Later on they moved over to the 7mm stem size:
Intake: 36.0mm x 8mm x 95.6mm          Intake: 36.0mm x 7mm x 95.6mm
Exhaust: 31.2mm x 8mm x 95.6mm                    Exhaust: 31.0mm x 7mm x 95.6mm

83 VW Jetta Deluxe             Intake      34mm      104.8mm length
         Exhaust   31mm      104.6mm length

According to what I have seen on this site, only the 1.9 Int is larger.  So, is it possible to have the exh done oversize?  Air Cooled Engines Plus maybe?

Bob


1993 Geo Tracker w/ 1.6L VW Turbo Diesel
1990 F-350 Crew Cab w/ Cummins 4BT

Reply #42February 25, 2011, 10:38:34 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2011, 10:38:34 am »
the block is taller, thats all. exhaust manifolds and that sort bolt right up..

just gotta make the downpipe 16mm longer..

im really glad you can take what i say as humor, but its really easy to build power with these engines, i bet you could almost get 100hp out of a n/a if you REALLY tried..

im willing to bet that my 1.6 has enough torque to shred sammi trannies, it really moves my rabbit around like it has 100hp or more..

when you add boost, and lots of fuel, these engines really come alive.

stock TD cars are not that spectacular.. and they basically always have traction.

i was having traction issues with 185/70 tires on dry pavement.

it is realistic to get 110-130 hp with only light mods done to the engine.
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #43February 25, 2011, 10:52:24 am

theman53

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2011, 10:52:24 am »
Quote
It just seems from factory specs, that it would be hard given fuel mods, port / polish and a few other thing to DOUBLE the factory power output and be capable of shredding the tranny.  From the stock NA I would have to gain +60HP and +52ft/lbs to come close to tranny issues.....and that would mean that I would have DOUBLED the factory HP rating and increased TQ by 66%!  Just hard to believe, that is all.
Nope, not hard to believe.
I got my old flat red rabbit to run pretty much the same as my 83gti with a bigger intake hose, gov. mod, and a 13mm wrench and screwdriver.
The GTI would pick up faster, but it has a 2H tranny. The flat red bunny would pull 2x as good from 35 to 80mph.
Stock GTI was about 90 hp and 100ft/lbs factory and the guy I bought it from had some goodies stuck on it.
The 13mm wrench and screwdriver were to add fuel. It smoked at idle, but it screamed from there.

NOW add a turbo, intercooler, huge downpipe, and more fuel....
MJF had a 1.6 that was right around 250hp. Dave at passenger had something that was right around 200hp don't know if it was 1.6 or hybrid/frankenthing.

What my respected *LOL* pal ROR and myself are saying in short is:
Yep, it is possible.

Reply #44February 25, 2011, 10:54:32 am

R.O.R-2.0

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Re: 1.6L IDI upgrades and mods
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2011, 10:54:32 am »
Dave Cross was building 196hp off a stock pump head and injectors  :o
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

 

NOLA Speed and Style