I need a welder, opinions.

[8v-of-fury]

Have had very little time welding, but something I want to get in to. And I want to get myself start up with a good base model all around welder. I was looking at Lincoln Electric from Crappy Tire and they sell this one in a kit where you get everything you need minus the gas bottle. Gloves, mask, hammer, brush, two wire rolls (normal and flux-rod), regulator, and a DVD to tell you wth to do.

However it is $700! I mean really its a good starting point.. but i was advised by a friend who is a welder by trade and has his own welding business to find a good used mig with bottle included and start there instead..

I will most likely be using it to fab up random stuff for whatever tickles my fancy to make.. Mild steel mostly I'm assuming which is why I presume i will do best with a mig.. for price and ease of use.

Whats your opinion?

[rallydiesel]

I have nothing to offer other than Canadian Tire often has big sales on welders since they don't really sell too many of them. I have seen the Lincoln migpak 140 for $500. I am just waiting for my local store to go under the 500 mark and I will snap a migpak up.

[8v-of-fury]

Here is a Lincoln 180 Migpak. I only sway towards this because it has all the accessories, which I will need as well being a new welder and all.

Just for confirmation.. Flux Core means the ability to weld without gas correct? like a full electric welder??

I think this is what I should spring for.. as I need one now and this has everything to literally buy it and get started.

thoughts?

[Vincent Waldon]

Yeah, flux core means the core of the wire generates the shielding gas.

Some MIG units can only run flux core (ie have no ability to use gas) but the slightly more expensive ones can run both.  You haven't said much about what you're planning to do with it... but if you can, my suggestion is that you go the extra mile (avoiding flux core) and lease a tank right off the bat.  Much more predictable results, much more professional results, much less frustration for the weekend welder.

Lincoln is a great brand, even if they sell 'em at Canadian Tire, and even if you get one used you'll still have to lease the tank.  

[8v-of-fury]

recreational welding really, mild steel i'm guessing. Exhaust work, body work, floor panels, fabricating stuff (want to make a tri-cycle LOL).

I think I will keep an eye out for a used mig with an owned bottle.

[AudiVWguy]

Try to get your friend to help you find you one. 110 volt machines would be my first choice. The gas bottles can be kinda pricey to buy. I came across a large CO2 tank and was able to trade it for a smaller bottle of the 75/25 mix I needed for the tig machine. I know $700 seems like a lot, but you are gonna really have to look shop around. Google is you friend for research. You will run into the term "duty cycle". For example a 30% duty cycle means that at full power you can weld for 3 minutes continues. 30% of 10 minutes is 3 minutes. You can also weld with Flux-core wire. There will some spatter to clean off, but you can start welding now and add the gas later (make sure the welder is made to use with gas) Then get yourself some scrap metal and go nuts!
Cheers,
-JB








He,He,He--I said Duty--He,He

[8v-of-fury]

He is keeping his eye out for me, I just wanted to verse myself on the topic so I don't go looking for something I don't know to look for lol

So a %30 is the one to look for? what happens when you try to weld for 3:30?? does it overheat and shut down?

That link i posted seems a good option to go with.. all the starting stuff, and the ability to weld without gas is cool too. but like Vince says its not as good as full Mig welding. I dunno its a good model from what i have read about it..

Is flux-core really that much worse than gas welding? does it have less penetration? less, ability of any kind?

He,He,He--I said Duty--He,He

^^^ lmfao

[Vincent Waldon]

Either will work... IMO full gas is just more predictable and easier to get good results, especially if you don't weld every day.  A full gas unit is usually only a couple hundred bucks more expensive than one than can't do gas.

Like I said..just my opinion, and I'm *not* a welder.  I also tend to be a "go for it" guy in the tool department... I also won't really recommend 110V units, either, since you're going to be welding exhausts, etc. 

[theman53]

The duty cycle is "usually" how long you can run the unit continuously at full output. I just bought my welder and went through all of this. The 180 you are looking at should be you can weld at 180 for 20 minutes in a one hour time frame = 30% roughly. It won't shut down unless it gets really hot and I have only had that happen on the 110v units. But if you get a 250 unit you could run that pretty much continuously at 180 all day long. You don't need to run them that hot though doing what you are. Full power is more for thick plates 3/8" and bigger with a bevel cut into them so you can burn into it well.
For what you are doing sounds about like what I did. I got a miller 250. MUCH bigger than what I needed, but there is no such thing as UNDERKILL A 180 unit should do well for every thing you want to do. I would stay away from 110v units as they don't melt wire as good as the 220v. My personal opinion Miller welders melt wire better than Lincoln, but those are probably the best 2 out. Hobart is a miller with all plastic gears inside
If you ever want to weld aluminum or just add a spool gun, then make sure there is the capacity to do it. Mine has the ability but unless I see the need to spend another 240.00 on a bottle just for pure argon I will pay someone else. I just don't need Al welded that much.

[8v-of-fury]

This unit is a 230V.. seems a good deal so far. unless a good priced used one pops up.

[Baron VonZeppelin]

I bought my HOBART Mig 110v new about 8 years ago with a full tank (40pound? about 4 feet tall) for $375. Have never needed more than that and never been any regrets. It'll do up to 1/4" steel. Its ready for its first refill now (empty).

In USA, bodyshops and muffler shops use 110v Mig units for 99% of their work. In my observation.

Can still get them (Hobart) new (w/o tank) for around 350-400 tops.

if its going to get hauled around a lot and used by multiple workers who might not be so gentle and caring - definitely get the Lincoln or Miller.   

[VW_Commuter]

Don't forget about TIG welders also.  TIG is a little harder to master but when you do it turns out better welds with less power so you get a smaller heat affected zone and typically much less grinding afterwords.  With the economy the way it is you might be able to pick up a used TIG setup for a good price.

Also, I highly suggest an auto-darkening welding mask.  You'll be futzing around with it less so it's less of a distraction.  I have a Hornell Speedglass helmet like this one and it makes welding much more enjoyable.

[745 turbogreasel]

Flux penetrates a little better, and is more wind tolerant, but is much harder to  make a pretty weld, and  can contaminate your body work from underneath.
I do a lot of mobile work, and mainly use flux core.  When I use gas, it is so easy it feels like I am cheating.

With mobility in mind, I purchased a new Miller, the biggest 110 they had.  No regrets, it's never let me down.
The  downside is on thick metal(4x4 bumpers, fabricated flatbeds, etc), you do have to go pretty slow.
On my birthday, I scored a free  stickwelder off Craigslist that picks up where this leaves off Much better for 3/8 plate

you DO want an auto darkening helmet.  the $50 harbor freight one works, but in a frustrating never quite 100% kind of way.
IMO you do want a brand name machine with gas capability.
something like this http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/tls/1913631862.html  will be worth just as much if you decide to sell it sown the road and get a bigger machine,  where a new no-name would not.  It also will do all you need to practice and get good.

As I see it, TIG has a smaller heat affected area, but the point heat is higer, so you get more panel distortion at the seam....suck if you are splicing patch panels in the body.
I'd argue the better welds, but prettier without a doubt, and i wish I did have a TIG, just not sure I'd recommend it for a 1st time buyer

Some of the Chinese inverter TIGs  have damn good bang for the buck factor.

[VW_Commuter]

I definitely agree that TIG is hard to learn, but then again MIG is also hard if you've never welded at all.  I just have to practice with my TIG if I haven't used it for a while.  One of my friends was a nuclear grade welder at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard before he injured his back and he can weld sheetmetal thinner than the typical body panel with no warpage.  Now granted I can't do that but I do pretty well with mine.  I've learned to keep the power as low as possible, take my time, and use a copper heat sink behind the weld site to help dissipate the heat after I stop the arc.

[745 turbogreasel]

Every form of welding can produce excellent results if done right. I know guys who can produce magic with an oxyacetylene torch I would never attempt.