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Author Topic: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)  (Read 52927 times)

Reply #45July 31, 2010, 01:08:26 am

dankcorey22

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2010, 01:08:26 am »
Okay ill go to the machine shop next week and take a look and take a few pictures. the person at the machine shop said there was a slight crack at the water jacket also.

Im going to the junk yard saturday to get a head off of a NA engine i can get them for dirt cheap.

Wolf walker there is no diesel oriented shops around where i live, i know if i could I would use a shop that knows diesel engines really well.
MY CARs-BLACK 99.5 Jetta TDI 5 speed 93,000- DC Stage 2 Clutch Kit 14Lb FW, Afe air intake box, 2.5" DP, 11mm IP, 2.5" stright piped, boost gauge, PP764, RC5 (WOW), 3-Bar, McNally EGT/Boost, 17/22, Race Pipe, EGR Cooler Delete, PD lift pump, R32 MAF housing,FMIC

1983 VW Jetta 1.6 turbo fuel mods

Reply #46July 31, 2010, 03:26:50 am

Baron VonZeppelin

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2010, 03:26:50 am »
Just to refresh and to be sure you know - since engines do get swapped around - 70's through 81 or early'ish 82 VW diesel engines used 11mm headbolts. You don't want to grab an 11mm head. An 84 might have an 81 engine replaced into it.

Take one of your old headbolts with you - pull 1 headbolt from potential donor - and compare thickness/length. If its not a triplesquare headbolt - no point in checking those. If it is triplesquare/12 point - it can still be an 11mm gasser headbolt substituted.

It also needs to be mechanical lifters.
Mechanical has 1 oil drainback port in front.
Hydra has 2 of them in front.
An 85 could have an 89 engine replaced into it.

What you want to end up with is a 1982 through mid'ish 1986 12mm mech head. If you have any of the toothbrush sized wire brushes, you could spot check the severity of cracks between valves before paying for the head.

Reply #47July 31, 2010, 08:46:36 am

theman53

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2010, 08:46:36 am »
286 2nd Avenue
Tiffin, OH 44883-1327
(419) 443-8987

The guy is named John. Great guy. Same that did my head. I think I had 500.00 shipped both ways for full port and polish, SS valves, flowbench tested, and complete rebuild. If you didn't get port, polish, and flowbench I bet it would be at least 100 cheaper.

While on the topic of machine shops, if they are boring the block Bentley says .001". That shouldn't be taken lightly as the wear limit is something like .003". The .003" is where most diesels are bored to with .008" or so wear limit. If they are scared of the .001" spec you might want to look elsewhere again. If they did it to more than .001" get different pistons and rebore as someone on here didn't IIRC and was using oil like the BP spill with hard starts too.
I am not saying that to scare you, but it is cheaper now than later if it can be avoided.

Reply #48July 31, 2010, 12:55:06 pm

Baron VonZeppelin

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2010, 12:55:06 pm »
Corey, since you are in Mocksville - Winston area isn't too far off.
There has to be some good diesel based machine shops in Winston.

We have a VW Guru of all flavors in Winston named Tom Landock who runs his own shop. His specialties and passions are aircooled, mk1 and mk2 - but he services/works on brand new stuff too.

Tom is a first class kinda VW guy, and he could probably point you towards an appropiate diesel machinist if there is need to swap shops at any point.

Theman53 is talking about the tolerance between the piston and the bore. And its a high precision operation when it comes down to 0.001 - no room for the operators error or old worn equipment.

Those ar fair prices in Ohio with shipping.
Not getting new valves would probly drop it another 200+/-.

Reply #49July 31, 2010, 03:01:16 pm

dankcorey22

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2010, 03:01:16 pm »
The head at the junk yard was allen bolts i know it wasnt right then. So i just left it on there.

The machine shop has already bored my block with a piston to wall at .0015 I think that will be fine at .001 I think it would be really hard to get the piston in the block when im ready to put back together.

I really wish i knew all of this before i started to rebuild it.

Ill post some pictures of the head up on monday when i go look at it.

Thanks Guys for all yalls help :)
MY CARs-BLACK 99.5 Jetta TDI 5 speed 93,000- DC Stage 2 Clutch Kit 14Lb FW, Afe air intake box, 2.5" DP, 11mm IP, 2.5" stright piped, boost gauge, PP764, RC5 (WOW), 3-Bar, McNally EGT/Boost, 17/22, Race Pipe, EGR Cooler Delete, PD lift pump, R32 MAF housing,FMIC

1983 VW Jetta 1.6 turbo fuel mods

Reply #50July 31, 2010, 04:51:51 pm

Baron VonZeppelin

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2010, 04:51:51 pm »
Thats one of the benefits of networking on these forums.
NCDubs doesn't have a lot going on really in the IDI diesel market. But there are good contacts to be made on the site.
Mk1 and Mk2 sections have a good following, sorta.

0.0015 will be okay. But get a new set of feeler gauges that go down that low and verify each before assembly. The machinist always expects the assembler to verify and leaves that on their shoulders. Its called LLC.

IF its still there, i can hook you up with an 85 12mm Mech head in eastern side of Greensboro. Been about a month since last visit.

Ask them to point out the water jacket crack and re-examine it, and also have a dime in your pocket for the cracks between the valves. Actually - i think the thumb rule is if its No Bigger than a dime.

So tell me about the mk1 in your junkyard.
Was it a 4door rabbit ? a 4door jetta ?
Good fenders or front doors on it ?
I might need to go there ..... i need some stuff !

Reply #51August 01, 2010, 01:38:24 am

dankcorey22

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2010, 01:38:24 am »
Thats one of the benefits of networking on these forums.
NCDubs doesn't have a lot going on really in the IDI diesel market. But there are good contacts to be made on the site.
Mk1 and Mk2 sections have a good following, sorta.

0.0015 will be okay. But get a new set of feeler gauges that go down that low and verify each before assembly. The machinist always expects the assembler to verify and leaves that on their shoulders. Its called LLC.

IF its still there, i can hook you up with an 85 12mm Mech head in eastern side of Greensboro. Been about a month since last visit.

Ask them to point out the water jacket crack and re-examine it, and also have a dime in your pocket for the cracks between the valves. Actually - i think the thumb rule is if its No Bigger than a dime.

So tell me about the mk1 in your junkyard.
Was it a 4door rabbit ? a 4door jetta ?
Good fenders or front doors on it ?
I might need to go there ..... i need some stuff !

Im starting to like this site a whole lot more than TDIclub there becoming like vortex sorta :o

So to verify i get a feeler gauge and stick it between the piston and the cyl wall? when the pistons are installed? Im guessing.

IF its still there( After i go check my head at the shop ) and my heads bad ill get with you on that head you found

So at the junk yard i go to there is 3 mk1 diesels there(theres a lot more mk1 gassers) all the cars is in alright condition based on the body, just the inside is gone to waste. I go to 109 U-pull-it its right off I-40 coming from Greensboro to Winston

question for anyone: I got my pistons with the rings already installed but when i try to close them as if i were installing them in the block the rings touch at the gap a little, i think im going to have to grind them down a few thousands of an inch 
MY CARs-BLACK 99.5 Jetta TDI 5 speed 93,000- DC Stage 2 Clutch Kit 14Lb FW, Afe air intake box, 2.5" DP, 11mm IP, 2.5" stright piped, boost gauge, PP764, RC5 (WOW), 3-Bar, McNally EGT/Boost, 17/22, Race Pipe, EGR Cooler Delete, PD lift pump, R32 MAF housing,FMIC

1983 VW Jetta 1.6 turbo fuel mods

Reply #52August 01, 2010, 02:57:10 am

Baron VonZeppelin

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2010, 02:57:10 am »
Cool. I've seen their commercials on TV, but never been yet.
Might go this week.

The head in Gboro is something i can put you onto - or i can get it for you. They don't have a phone line anymore, and they don't inventory older parts anyhow. You basically just have to go and see whats left. They do inventory the cars themselves, but now that i can't even call them - its tuffer to deal with.
I owe you a returned favor, so no probo trying to help out.

This is the best VW IDI Diesel forum in the USA/Canada.
Vortex Diesel forum was a good one, but i can't navigate that site anymore worth a hoot since they switched platforms. And majority of those guys are here too.
You go into the mk1 mk2 sections of Vortex and you find some real clown acts going on.

I'm not a TDI guy, so i leave those TDI boards alone.

Yes, bare piston in the hole - slide in the feeler gauge. No rings.

On the rings, lil odd they were pre-installed.
They need to come back off, and thats tedious as well as risky.
Be VERY cautious and patient.
Put one at a time in the bore (if it will fit?) and measure the end gap with feeler gauge. Hopefully they came with papers giving end gap tolerance.

You'll want to find which piston fits which cylinder best, and mark them respectively.

Then basically do same with each group of rings.
Designate each group per certain cylinder, especially if they have to be file fit.

Reply #53August 01, 2010, 10:26:29 am

dankcorey22

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2010, 10:26:29 am »
There stuff is a little pricey but I dont know of any other cheaper place to go to yet.

On the rings, thats what i thought was odd also pistons dont ever come with rings installed.
Im a little worried about taking them back off I dont want to scratch the crap outta the piston
Nope no papers with the end gap tolerance  :(

Ill start all of this when i get my block back next week im hoping!
MY CARs-BLACK 99.5 Jetta TDI 5 speed 93,000- DC Stage 2 Clutch Kit 14Lb FW, Afe air intake box, 2.5" DP, 11mm IP, 2.5" stright piped, boost gauge, PP764, RC5 (WOW), 3-Bar, McNally EGT/Boost, 17/22, Race Pipe, EGR Cooler Delete, PD lift pump, R32 MAF housing,FMIC

1983 VW Jetta 1.6 turbo fuel mods

Reply #54August 01, 2010, 03:52:47 pm

Baron VonZeppelin

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2010, 03:52:47 pm »
Where did you buy the pistons / rings from ?
N.C. vendor in Matthews/IndianTrail/Charlotte ?

I'd try to contact whomever to get end gap specs, and then express displeasure of them being pre-installed.
They may have been returned previously by another customer when found they wouldn't close around piston. No telling.

I've had to remove rings before. Its tedious work.
It might help to cut a section out of a milk jug and wrap the area of piston that the ring end will move across.

If you get gouges/scratches - you can polish them out with 600 grit wetpaper and odorless mineral spirits (or soapy water).

I'm sorta meticulous, but i always use 600 grit wetpaper on the top chamfer edge, and any suspicious looking/feeling area of a cast piston.
(after checking tolerance with feeler gauge first - in case they have to be returned)

I also polish the surface and deburr/chamfer edges of new bearing shells with 600.

And, i go across all the rings quickly to remove any burrs or sharp raised edges with 600.

I run a tap into all bolt holes and a die over all the bolts.

Reply #55August 01, 2010, 05:50:41 pm

Baron VonZeppelin

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #55 on: August 01, 2010, 05:50:41 pm »
fwiw - i forgot to mention - the biggest thing about removing the rings is not so much scratching the piston - its Breaking / Snapping the Ring.

Seen it happen.
They bend and flex and give "some" - but not much.
Pretty brittle trinkets.
Go slow and don't try to pull lower rings all the way up over top in one whack. Take it to the next groove and work its way up in stages like that.

Reply #56August 01, 2010, 10:21:40 pm

wolf_walker

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #56 on: August 01, 2010, 10:21:40 pm »
They make a ring spreader dealy that helps, but you can do it by hand if you have to.  They also make a ring filer tool that is really sweet, but it's usually money if you are only doing one build now and again.  Use the bare piston to push the ring down in the bore also when you measure, keeps it straight.  Measure at a couple different points too.
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Reply #57August 01, 2010, 11:21:54 pm

dankcorey22

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #57 on: August 01, 2010, 11:21:54 pm »
I bought the pistons and rings from www.dieselvw.com

It will be a chore to take the rings off ill work on that tomorrow! hope its successful with out breaking any
that 600 grit sandpaper would be a good idea also, but i dont have enough time to tap all the bolt holes and studs

should i do the oil ring also it looks kinda close, i think the end gap for the rings is in the bently manual. I would go the the shop and get it but im too lazy right now  ;) ill post them tomorrow morning!
MY CARs-BLACK 99.5 Jetta TDI 5 speed 93,000- DC Stage 2 Clutch Kit 14Lb FW, Afe air intake box, 2.5" DP, 11mm IP, 2.5" stright piped, boost gauge, PP764, RC5 (WOW), 3-Bar, McNally EGT/Boost, 17/22, Race Pipe, EGR Cooler Delete, PD lift pump, R32 MAF housing,FMIC

1983 VW Jetta 1.6 turbo fuel mods

Reply #58August 02, 2010, 12:36:00 am

wolf_walker

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2010, 12:36:00 am »
There is some question to the quality of parts from dieselvw, he's known and has a bunch of domains he sells under.  China made, not all bad but still.  Last I think I remember hearing the pistons were ok but the rings were suspect.  Someone will elaborate I'm sure.
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Reply #59August 02, 2010, 12:47:12 am

Baron VonZeppelin

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Re: The old blue rebuild (1983 1.6 TD)
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2010, 12:47:12 am »
Yep, thats the guy in Matthews/IndianTrail/Charlotte NC.
Prothe
He uses several city names, and several dotcom names, and he's on eBay too.

People have had decent success with his pistons and rings in the past. But never heard anyone say they came with rings installed.
Leads me to think they were returned that way by a customer when they noticed the conflict.

On a side note, he also sells a lotta crappy shet.
For a dollar or two more you can usually get quality brand name merchandise instead of his junk. But his piston price is unmatchable.

Not too many things he sells are worth buying at any price.

The oil control rings are easiest to remove.
They need to come off and be checked inside the bore too.
You'll really hate yourself if this thing has something wrong you could have avoided with an extra hour or two of time.

I'd at minimum run a tap in the headbolt holes.

You want to get one end of ring started upward towards top, then spiral your way around the rest of the ring, moving the start end upwards more as slack allows along the way. When you can get about half the start end up over top of piston crown easily - you can usually spiral the rest of it right on off from the start end.

You'll get a hang of it and feel for what works.

 

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