interest: 34/30 steel head

[nathan_b]

I would be in about $600, I think we should just build stock aaz heads, if we get into custom *** it either won't happen, or it will get messed up.

[macka]

stock aaz with a slight inset would be a good compromise, maybe see about slightly larger valves too

[arb]

not disagreeing with you..... on either count.  I was spitballing that some may be discouraged from buying one if there are too many modifications.  kiss it and it will be better K eep I t S imple S tupid inevitably we will end up modding everything "ooh, let's change this, or OH! let's change that" face it we can do it better than the Germans did we have the technology, we can make it stronger, faster "tv ref."  My question is should we do that???  don't get me wrong, I am just as eager to milk this cow dry as any warm blooded male with speed on his mind.

if were gonna re-design the entire head, lets make it cross flow, and twin cam, and 16v.. if were gonna change some of the design, we might as well completely change it, so its more like the later VW diesel heads from europe..

Can one of these EU 16v heads be obtained as a printing donor ?

[macka]

I wonder if Danster can find a pooched one, the caster will obviously not include cracks between the valves

[R.O.R-2.0]

maybe a 12 valve, as we would have to use much smaller valves to still fit within the chamber and pre-cup. use the same size intake valve and 2 smaller exhaust with an overall dia. larger than the single. just have one valve tappet push two valve stems.

 but insetting the valve wouldent be a bad idea, a small drop in compression 1 or 3 points,  just raise the boost a few points to compansate.

what does the cross flow offer that the non c/f doesnt?

it would be better to have 2 intakes and one exhaust..

[arb]

maybe a 12 valve, as we would have to use much smaller valves to still fit within the chamber and pre-cup. use the same size intake valve and 2 smaller exhaust with an overall dia. larger than the single. just have one valve tappet push two valve stems.

 but insetting the valve wouldent be a bad idea, a small drop in compression 1 or 3 points,  just raise the boost a few points to compansate.

what does the cross flow offer that the non c/f doesnt?

it would be better to have 2 intakes and one exhaust..

Cummings went to 4 valves when they updated their 5.9L - Was there a 12v IDI in any market ? A copy will always be less work than a "new" design.

[NintendoKD]

I am all for the simple design, this keeps prototypes to a minimum, and improves overall result, we can always tinkier with a new design later.  inset valves, valve size change, and improved port size/shape.  only three changes, and not difficult ones at that. that should be it.  ok, now lets do this thing.  first step?  let me know if there is anything I can do.

what is this about a eu head with more valves, this is a completely different engine isn't it? won't work with the blocks we have?  someone tell me more about this please, don't have to post you can pm me.  Arb, welcome, and thank you for joining.  good to hear from some experience.

[R.O.R-2.0]

I am all for the simple design, this keeps prototypes to a minimum, and improves overall result, we can always tinkier with a new design later.  inset valves, valve size change, and improved port size/shape.  only three changes, and not difficult ones at that. that should be it.  ok, now lets do this thing.  first step?  let me know if there is anything I can do.

what is this about a eu head with more valves, this is a completely different engine isn't it? won't work with the blocks we have?  someone tell me more about this please, don't have to post you can pm me.  Arb, welcome, and thank you for joining.  good to hear from some experience.

the european heads were still 8v idi, or 16v TDI later down the road.. but roller cam and all that fun stuff.. but for the small block diesels.

if we wanna K.I.S.S. then we just need to directly copy the AAZ head..

[NintendoKD]

I really think that we should just do a direct copy, at least for now., we can pay later.  I plan to live a few more years at least untill the temple is completely torn down and rebuilt.

[RadoTD]

The one change I would make is to put a precup with a larger internal volume in. This would lower compression exactly where you want it to, thereby reducing peak force attempting to tear your bottom end apart for the power you're making.

Having a multi valve head would be good, although if you want more air, you can simply turn the boost or NOS up to compensate. There's no substitute for lowering compression in the precup

[R.O.R-2.0]

The one change I would make is to put a precup with a larger internal volume in. This would lower compression exactly where you want it to, thereby reducing peak force attempting to tear your bottom end apart for the power you're making.

Having a multi valve head would be good, although if you want more air, you can simply turn the boost or NOS up to compensate. There's no substitute for lowering compression in the precup

lol, thats a bit odd, a canadian wanting LESS compression.. that compression is what makes our cars start so nice and easy.. ever dealt with any of the other IDI diesels of the same vintage? they SUCK for starting compared to the VW. my datsun pickup for example, it needs the glow plugs to start, even when its at running temperature! same goes for alot of old IDI tractors. and the 6.9/7.3 diesels, all the ones that ive messed with, even at 32*f, they need the plugs cycled like 3 times just to fire. both of those engines were under 20:1 compression also, the VW is up at 24:1.. hell, my VW starts with just the cold start knob, even if the block is barely warm to the touch..

less compression, and we would be limited to a car that we could only drive on days that it will start.. (haha, not really)

[macka]

The one change I would make is to put a precup with a larger internal volume in. This would lower compression exactly where you want it to, thereby reducing peak force attempting to tear your bottom end apart for the power you're making.

Having a multi valve head would be good, although if you want more air, you can simply turn the boost or NOS up to compensate. There's no substitute for lowering compression in the precup

Kev brings up a good point about the compression making stuff work. Bumping boost or using NOS isn't an option for some of us. A better flowing head would make more power without messing with the prechamber. Redesigning a prechamber isn't a matter of hit or miss. It is an exercise in engineering. Can we improve it? Yes is the short answer. Testing the results, and then when we get what we want, to make it affordable and recover money that went into the R&D will be near impossible. 

[RadoTD]

I just figured that most people interested in this head would have plans for it anywhere from crazy up to retarded.
Cold starting if it's 20*C (70ish*F) I wasn't even using the glow plugs, even when my engine had 240k on it

Once the head is steel, it'll be the bottom end that'll become the power limiter; blowing the main caps out, splitting the block, bending rods, bending the crank etc. The lowered compression will lift yet another power limitation. And when I was saying to use a larger volume precup, I was thinking of using a pre existing precup (for example, maybe a GM 6.9/7.3) and matching nozzles for it.

And Kevin, my weather hardly differs from yours at all! A little bit colder on average, but not significantly. Almost identical to Seattle

[R.O.R-2.0]

I just figured that most people interested in this head would have plans for it anywhere from crazy up to retarded.
Cold starting if it's 20*C (70ish*F) I wasn't even using the glow plugs, even when my engine had 240k on it

Once the head is steel, it'll be the bottom end that'll become the power limiter; blowing the main caps out, splitting the block, bending rods, bending the crank etc. The lowered compression will lift yet another power limitation. And when I was saying to use a larger volume precup, I was thinking of using a pre existing precup (for example, maybe a GM 6.9/7.3) and matching nozzles for it.

And Kevin, my weather hardly differs from yours at all! A little bit colder on average, but not significantly. Almost identical to Seattle

see, i keep forgetting you are on the island, and not mainland canada.. and that might be a decent idea, using a pre-cup from something else, but probably not something as big as a 6.2 or 6.9.. i think those ones would be too big to work with on a 1.6 engine.. we would need something thats only a little bigger than the VW precup, not 3x as big. lol.. because the 6+ litre engines are twice as big as our engines, so they gotta have a pre-cup size that is atleast double the volume of ours. and i dunno if we wanna go that big on the cup..

[RadoTD]

Yeah, I suppose the 6.9's would be massive. There's probably something that'll fit though

And I'm not on the island, I'm about half an hour out of Vancouver