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Author Topic: VE Pump modifications BMW 524/324  (Read 12619 times)

June 06, 2010, 07:13:22 am

klang

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VE Pump modifications BMW 524/324
« on: June 06, 2010, 07:13:22 am »
Hello,

I'm currently putting my new engine together. With a couple of modifications to the block and head to withstand the increased boostpressure.
Its a 6 cyl BMW M21D24, with a VE pump.

Now I've come to the point were I have to modify my pump and I've run in to some problems.

The shop that is suppose to put my pump together refuses to go bigger than 11mm plunger.
He used to build pumps with 12mm, but he says that the "high" rpms is going to make it run bad, the 12mm is only for cummins.. bla bla bla...
And also that my cambelt will shread in to pieces.

Then I spoke to another shop, who offered complete kits, pump + injectors.
They see no problems whatsoever with 12mm plunger, and they promise 400hp. But they limit the pump to 5000rpm, which I can accept...

Who is correct?

I dont want to go 11mm.. thats 180whp. Not enough. Then I might aswell spend my money into a gasser.


I have also seen 14mm plunger/camplate kits. Is this just ridiculous? I guess this is only to cummins... That will just spread my engine all over the highway ;)
High rpm can I go with this? 1500? ;)

http://www.rocken-tech.com/RotorHeads.html


The engine is going into a E30, and its only for fun... NOT a daily driver.


What do you guys think?


Regards,
Patrik

Sweden



Reply #1June 06, 2010, 10:20:53 am

burn_your_money

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Re: VE Pump modifications BMW 524/324
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2010, 10:20:53 am »
If the shop is promising 400 WHP with a money back guarantee you should go that route. I don't think your engine has the displacement for 400hp at 5000 though.

Tyler

Reply #2June 06, 2010, 10:53:29 am

klang

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Re: VE Pump modifications BMW 524/324
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2010, 10:53:29 am »
Okey.

I guess they mean 400hp from the engine, not whp though.
But the pricetag on the 400hp pump is.. BIG..


But will the pump/belt hold together?

Regards

Reply #3June 06, 2010, 11:06:58 am

burn_your_money

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Re: VE Pump modifications BMW 524/324
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2010, 11:06:58 am »
There are hundreds of ways to build a pump. If they build it correctly then yeah it should last
Tyler

Reply #4June 06, 2010, 01:13:21 pm

Alleslowbuged

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Re: VE Pump modifications BMW 524/324
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2010, 01:13:21 pm »
Hi,

i have also a 524TD in a E28 from 1987 and have actual reach the 200HP, still with the original plunger and with 1.6 bar boost.
To come up with that number (still original bottom end) it is my third cylinder head and i actual i drive a metal head gasket from "gasket to go". If you really wand to get that huge hp numbers, i would advice to order also a metal head gasket (if you not have one up to know).

With a unmodded pump, the maxium peak power is something in the range of 190hp. I will update the pump within the next 2 month with a 12mm plunger and will speed up higher than 5000rpm for sure. If you have a good core and a 12mm plunger, i could also build a pump for you with extended hydraulic advance timing device and governor mod.

I do not think that 400hp will be reliable, because the inline 6 zylinder is hard for sealing. For my little 200hp setup i still need arp studs.

Best Regards

Regarding you question, go ahead with a 12mm plunger and more than 2mm lift camplate combined with a matching governor.       
VW Golf Mk1 (Typ 17) 1981 with 1.6 TD
BMW E28 524 TD

Reply #5June 06, 2010, 03:05:47 pm

klang

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Re: VE Pump modifications BMW 524/324
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2010, 03:05:47 pm »
Okey.

I've chosen to go and O-ring my block, I have a bad picture of it:


This "o-ring" is pressing against the headgasket. I had no idea that metal gasket existed to M21D24 engines.
This is a popular thing to do on gassers (BMW) to keep the headgasket into place when you get really high boost.
I have not found ARP bolt to fit on the M21? Do you have a link or something.

What rpms are you setting your pump to? I like RPM :)

I used to run a maxed original plunger, with loads of boost...
Then I overdid the methanol injection.. I forgot to mount the hose to the WG... and yeah guess what happened ;)


If your building a pump, you might aswell build one for me.. What do you want for this modification?

Regards

Reply #6June 07, 2010, 03:54:25 pm

Alleslowbuged

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Re: VE Pump modifications BMW 524/324
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2010, 03:54:25 pm »
Hi Klang,

always nice to see someone working with the M21 engine and your scandinavian guys are the most crazy ones.
You are right there is no ARP stud set for the M21 engine, i have to look wich one i have used. From what i remeber, there where for audi 5 cylinder gasser engine or so, i have had a dealer you boughts to sets of the bolts and makes one 6 cylinder set for me and one 4 cylinder set for his shop. I can ask him for another set if you wand.

You are also right, that there is no stock mls headgasket for the m21, i have send my old gasket as master to John from "gasket-to-go" in Thailand and he makes a mls gasket for me. The first one was quite expensive because shipping from germany to thailand cost 75, but once this was done in the past, you could send John a message via skype and say that you want a mls gasket for the bmw m21 engine and which thickness you would like. As i remeber right one gasket should cost something around 250 US$ with 2mm thickness.

As update i would make additional "steam holes" in the block and head and therefore also in gasket, as the actual tdi engines have.
I have allready spoken with John about that, but have not send him a picture with the dimension, so the technical thing is not fully clarifield.

By the side, i would love to have my block regrinded as yours is, this will help you many to seal the head. I go up to full 6000 rpm with my actual setup but shedule to go ahead a bit higher with my new pump. I would recommend to install a egt measuremt and not going much higher than 1000C, which is my issue in the moment at high rpms, because my first pump is not modifield enough.

Just to make sure that we do not misunderstand us, i can only build mechanical pumps, if you wand to go ahead with a electronic pump it could not help you. As i am not a professionel it will not take as much for me, for building a pump, but is is difficult to find a good 12mm hd-section.

Here some vids and pictures from my old bimmer:
BMW E28 524TD --- Kreisfahrt

BMW E28 524TD --- 60km/h - 170km/h

BMW E28 524TD --- 0 - 100km/h

ported head:






ARP bolts






mls gasket:




special intake




dyno






Regarding the pump please send pm, if you shedule with a mechanical pump design         
VW Golf Mk1 (Typ 17) 1981 with 1.6 TD
BMW E28 524 TD

Reply #7June 07, 2010, 03:58:39 pm

Alleslowbuged

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Re: VE Pump modifications BMW 524/324
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2010, 03:58:39 pm »
Hi again,

i forgot, if you like high rpm on diesel engine as i like, than don`t take a camplate with 4mm lift, this will not be stable at high rpms.

Best Regards
VW Golf Mk1 (Typ 17) 1981 with 1.6 TD
BMW E28 524 TD

Reply #8July 14, 2016, 02:44:39 pm

jdeitch

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Re: VE Pump modifications BMW 524/324
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2016, 02:44:39 pm »
I'm considering purchasing a 1985 BMW 524td and this is just the kind of modification I'm looking for.  Nothing too crazy.  Any more folks with more success stories or more up-to-date projects?

Reply #9August 31, 2017, 01:46:49 am

candicezheng

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Re: VE Pump modifications BMW 524/324
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2017, 01:46:49 am »
What is update situation now?

Does the BMW shop reply you?
Tomorrow is another day

 

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