Question about 4 spd to 5 spd swap - page 2 - Upgrades (non engine related ) - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• #15 by Baron VonZeppelin on 16 Aug, 2010 17:03
• Its a lil tricky kinda .... but won't be hard to make right either way.
  
  There are at least 2 diff mk1 calibrations on speedos.
  One is 1540 and one is 1575.
  Those numbers pertain to how many revolutions it takes for the odometer to register 1 mile.
  
  So think about this, how could 2 trannys with same final drive parameter - have different speedo drive gears.
  
  And, how could a 3.00 range final drive and 2.75 range final drive share the same speedo gear ?
  
  Its made up with the speedo calibration - which is numbered on the face of the speedo.
  
  Thats my theory and i'm sticking to it.  
  Not new science or knowledge i'm sure, just newer to me.
  
  Never noticed before that there were 2.75 range trannys that didn't all require the red gear.
  
  So i checked some notes.
  
  My 81 and 82 Trucks were both GC 4spd (82 still is). They both have the 1575 speedos. The 81 has had an ACH tranny swap. The speedo registers very very close to accurate - if not right on the button accurate.
  
  The Silver 82 Jetta Dzl i'm parting has FN tranny.
  It has 1540 speedo.
  Ah Ha.
  
  VW has the math worked out to where they can mix and match speedo gears and speedo calibrations with minimal parts.
  
  I've been thinking about grabbing the FN for my 81 Truck the past few days - probly gonna just do it. Then can use the 1540 speedo from the Jetta - with the white gear. Or my existing 1575 speedo and get a red gear.
  I guess thats right .....
• #16 by ventureforth on 16 Aug, 2010 21:42
• So I found a 7A in the end.  Pretty happy about that.  Basically, the same gearing as my GC (almost) through 4th, and then the .71 5th.  4+E if I'm not mistaken.  It's got the right mounts and the right speedo gear.  Also got the 5-speed linkage that GEE-BEE mentioned.  So, I think I'll be pretty set.  Will I be able to use the clutch and flywheel, etc., that is currently on my Rabbit, or do I need different stuff?  Actually, I think I'm gonna go for a new clutch kit, anyway, so the real question is can I keep the flywheel?     
  
           R&P                                                              FD
  7A     3.94      3.45     1.94     1.29     0.91     0.71     2.80     90mm     Large     Stud
• #17 by Baron VonZeppelin on 16 Aug, 2010 23:00
• Congrats on getting some good stuff !
  
  If you have a 1575 speedo (you should) - and use a 2.80 final drive - you more than likely will need the red speedo gear. Does your 7A have the red one ?
• #18 by Baron VonZeppelin on 19 Aug, 2010 11:31
• Quote from: ventureforth on 16 Aug, 2010 21:42

  Also got the 5-speed linkage that GEE-BEE mentioned.  So, I think I'll be pretty set.  Will I be able to use the clutch and flywheel, etc., that is currently on my Rabbit, or do I need different stuff?  Actually, I think I'm gonna go for a new clutch kit, anyway, so the real question is can I keep the flywheel?
  

  
  Holy Frikkn Mackerel !!!
  
  I just checked the auction number that GB posted to see what you got. 380258138107
  You got all that for $10 plus shipping ..... omgosh
  
  I just pulled the same stuff from an 82 Jet and charged myself more than that ! Thats about a $75+ retail package.
  Great Score
  
  The shifter box and long shaft are different between 4 - 5 speed.
  But 4speed can be made to work as 5speed.
  The right stuff is always first choice.
  
  And you're good with the existing flywheel/clutch arrangement - unless you just want upgrades.
• #19 by GEE-BEE on 20 Aug, 2010 08:33
• Tadah !
  
  Iam another great find, reminds me of the brand new VW T3 Turbo I scored for 240.00 in the factory box!
  
  Giles got it for a trade for a pump OHC
  
  GB
• #20 by ventureforth on 20 Aug, 2010 19:26
• Hello.  Allow me to introduce myself.  I am a moron. 
  
  So, you'll love this.  I always assumed I had a 4 speed because, well, I could only shift through 4 gears.  Well, today I had the Rabbit up on the lift at my exhaust guy's shop.  We were taking a look at things to plan for the 2" upgrade.  Well, I was thinking to myself, "Hmmm, wouldn't it be a shame if I actually had a GP and didn't know it?"   So, I got out a rag and some elbow grease and finally got all the grime off the bell to see the code.  Guess what I have in my Rabbit right this moment... an FN!!     So, the 7A I just bought is basically all moot, since the gearing for the two is exactly the same (well, I'm assuming my FN is one of the later ones with the .71 and not the earlier .76.  How would I go about figuring that one out to be sure?)
  
  So, I'm thinking to myself, "Self, you have one of the best 5 speeds you can get...but why can't you engage that gear?"  So, here's what I discovered.  The only way I can get into 5th is by pressing down on the shifter as if I'm going into reverse and pushing it way out to the side, well beyond where 5th would be and then up.  Not the way it should be, for sure.  So, I would think there are two possibilities:
  
  1.  The linkage is correct but needs some fixing.
  2.  The PO didn't swap in a 5 speed linkage when they swapped in the FN
  
  Any way to know which is the case just by sight or feel or whatever?  Does this shifting issues sound like option "2" from above?  Is that what would happen if someone used a 4 speed linkage with a 5 speed gearbox?
  
  I still have that 5 speed linkage off of ebay on its way.  I guess I could do the proper swap if necessary.  Since the gearing is exactly the same, I'm assuming there's no benefit to using the 7A over the FN (as in one is more reliable or something)?
  
  So, any thoughts on my shifting issue and where to go from here?
  
  Thanks.
  
  p.s.
  Awesome 7A for sale!  Or I guess I'll just keep it as a spare. 
• #21 by theman53 on 20 Aug, 2010 19:37
• That my friend is awesome. I feel normal again. I do some stuff similar to that all the time...well not all the time, but it has been done before 
• #22 by Baron VonZeppelin on 20 Aug, 2010 19:57
• oooo....Kayyyyy
  
  were gonna have to frame this one and mount it on the wall !
  
  LoL ... no biggy - spares are good.
  And now you don't have to go through pulling the tranny.
  
  
  
  If you can get back up under and look at a few things:
  
  the 4speed long rod from shifter to firewall is about strait - or completely strait (memory).
  
  the 5speed long rod has some bends in it.
  
  put shifter in 5th - and look to see if the fork on the bottom of the shifter, where the long rod attaches - is up against the outer perimeter of the shifter box.
  
  from top (with shift boot frame removed) or from the bottom - the 4spd shifter handle is centered in the shifter box - the 5spd is over more to one side.
  
  When your eBay package arrives - you can compare it all - as in everything - and you may find one or more things that aren't swapped over yet either.
  
  Or you may find that everything is spot on, and it was factory FN.
  
  Along with the FN code stamping is a date stamping - like 02032 for example.
  
  And don't tell me the calibration number on your speedo face - i've only tried to drag it out of you 3 times already.  
  
  damm moron  
• #23 by ventureforth on 20 Aug, 2010 20:07
• Ha!  Yes, speedo is 1575.  I finally got to check it last night (didn't have my Rabbit back until yesterday)...right before I got pulled over because my parking lights were out and I was driving at night (my fuse blew...en route  ). 
  
  I'll check everything against the new shifter assembly when it arrives and make the other visual checks you mentioned.  Thanks for all the tips!
  
  Yeah, it should does save a lot of work have to R&R the tranny.  I'm hoping it's a later FN for the super tall gear, but I won't be sad if it's just the early one.
  
  
  
  
• #24 by honda_is_the_best on 21 Aug, 2010 09:19
• dude, the difference between a .71 and .75 is like 35-40 rpms... you will not be able to tell the difference.
• #25 by GEE-BEE on 21 Aug, 2010 10:02
• Is the shifter plate a 5 speed ?
  
  GB
  
  My other CHD just came back from the powder coater ( black)
  black forest shipped my peloquin lmtd slip Diff to vwtransaxles
  12 pt exterior ARP bolt kit is there
  3.67 /.71 FF
• #26 by honda_is_the_best on 21 Aug, 2010 10:16
• Quote from: GEE-BEE on 21 Aug, 2010 10:02

  Is the shifter plate a 5 speed ?
  
  GB
  
  My other CHD just came back from the powder coater ( black)
  black forest shipped my peloquin lmtd slip Diff to vwtransaxles
  12 pt exterior ARP bolt kit is there
  3.67 /.71 FF
  

  
  my 5 speed worked fine with most of a 4 speed shifter setup.. 4 speed shift plate. altho, i dont know where the shift plate goes, and why its so important, ive never had to swap it..
  
  if you get your adjustments pretty bang on, then you should be able to use your 4 speed setup (most of it) with ease.
• #27 by GEE-BEE on 21 Aug, 2010 12:56
• The shift plate is different from four to five, it allows the shifter to go forward in the rh corner for fifth, some people grind out that notch..
  
  I had the plate # at one time, new was 55.00
  
  MK1autohaus had the boot and shift bearing
  
  I installed all new parts when I did the swap...
  GB
• #28 by ventureforth on 21 Aug, 2010 23:40
• Well, I'm loving that 5th gear.  After a day of practicing, I can get into 5th very easily.  Was going about 90mph (per GPS, of course) for a brief time and the engine was revving acceptably.  The only thing is when downshifting from 5th, it's hard to go right into 4th.  With the clutch in, I have to go into another gear before I can get it into fourth.  Upon visual inspection, it looks like I do have a 5 speed (at least the shifter is not centered in the shifter box...it's a little to the left, or towards me).  Maybe it just needs a rebuild kit.  Definitely need a new clutch though.  Mine is toast.
  
  Now I just have to figure out the new rattle.  When it came back from body shop, it was rattling enough to shake out a few of my teeth.  It has not even a hint of rattle before.  Upon closer investigation, I discovered that the bolt that goes through the tranny mount has no nut locking in down.  Only the weight of the tranny is keeping the bolt in place.  Scary.  There's also an extra, large washer sandwiched in there.  Not sure if that's acceptable.  I'll have to take some pics and post.  Wondering if the lack of tightness/compression on the mount is what's allowing for the rattle.  Or if it's a bad mount.  Or if the body shop messed something up when the straightened and welded a bit of the frame.  It really saddens me that one of the quietest Rabbits I've known is now a chatter box.  I'm really hoping I can solve this one.  I would just go out and get a nut and see about tightening it down, but the bolt is stripped on that end...so I'm gonna need a new bolt and everything.  The sad thing is, I could accept the body shop messing up, or not knowing how to fix something...but letting me drive away with a free-floating tranny and not even alerting me to it...not cool.   Just plain dangerous and negligent.  Well, I'll be having some words with them to say the least.
  
  But I'm still happy about my 5th gear.  Where the Rabbit is involved, it's hard not to keep a smile on my face. 
• #29 by honda_is_the_best on 23 Aug, 2010 14:00
• the nut is contained in the frame for the drivers side trans mount. and that huge washer is rubber.. there should be 2 of them, one on each side of the mount.
  
  and if your frame got straightened, did they re-align the engine?
  they probably tweeked the frame back into shape, and the engine mounts didnt like it..