1.6 NA return fuel line issue

[jseeley]

After reading this post->

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=18238.0

I wonder if I should rebuild my injectors; Or at least get them pop tested... high revving idle is kinda my situation now; I still have throttle response, but it won't drop down... 

[jseeley]

Soooooooo... I received new injectors today. I'll be tearing back into the car tomorrow and I'm really at a loss what could be wrong with the car at this point if it's not injectors. Any suggestions? To recap-

85 Golf 1.6 NA
Compression is decent (400-425)
IP re-built by Giles
Timed to 0.97mm (re-checked multiple times)
All pump bracket bolts are tight and secure
No blockage in hard lines send or return (only takes 2-3 Hg's to pull fuel)
New viton "soft" lines everywhere else
New Check valves
Rear Water Separator deleted

Car starts and immediately wants to "runaway" I've adjusted the fuel screw and idle stop to try and stop this behavior, but there is a point where if I back it off more the car will no longer start. Turning just to the point I can start, the idle will still go very high and then it surges around in the upper RPM's. The engine is not feeding off oil from the breather box, there is no oil in there and the engine still shuts down normally and doesn't continue it's runaway like symptoms. The engine is not overfilled with oil, I haven't put any in since I pulled the pump to have it rebuilt. At this point the injectors themselves are the only un-tested part of the system. The plan is to replace them as I suspect a dripping or leaky one; I will get the old ones tested for my own sanity. However if I'm still having the same symptoms with new injectors can anyone think of anything else that could cause this issue? The car was running (though a bit rough) for a bit when I was first getting it going with the new pump but I found I could run normally off a jar of fuel. Replacing my check valves sorted out that issue but after about 25mins of perfect idle with the new check valves this surging high idle/runaway appeared. Now the car will have this issue right on start-up. I've tried switching back to the bottle of fuel with the same results. I've been priming with a hand pump "mighty vac" on the out side of the pump till I have no air in the lines. Doing lots of testing with clear lines, air is not the issue, from what I've seen air usually makes the engine stumble anyway, not rev UP. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.  

[burn_your_money]

Is it smoking when it's running away?

The throttle isn't stuck is it? 

Is your vacuum pump properly hooked up with no cracks in the line?

Is your air filter clean?

How much are you adjusting the max fuel screw?

[jseeley]

Smoke is clean coming out the exhaust even with the high rev'ing; faint grey haze. Unless I turn up the fuel very high at which point it becomes darker. I would say the fuel screw is currently around the point it was when I received the pump (would a picture help?) I'm only adjusting its like an 1/8th of a turn each time.

The throttle is all the way in the idle position resting against the stop screw; It's not binding on the cable or anything.

I did remove the vacuum pump when setting my timing, to fit the dial gauge. What would be the improper way to re-install it? Could a vacuum pump problem cause the surging idle? I do have a new o-ring for where the vacuum pump meets the block because when I had it off I noticed there wasn't one there (Thank you PO   ) There are only 2 lines that come off the pump, one to the brake booster and one to the A/C. I can't identify any leaks there, but I will double check.

Air filter is quite clean.

[burn_your_money]

I don't think a picture will help, but I know it won't hurt.

I was asking about the vacuum pump because it can pressurize the crankcase and cause all sorts of funny problems depending on your engine.

[jseeley]

If the crankcase was pressurized, how would I be able to identify this issue? Could I test by running with the oil cap off?

Here is a pic of my fuel screw->



At this point I can start the car but still have an escalating idle; Much lower and the car is hard to start.

[jseeley]

Is the nut tight that holds the accelerator lever to the shaft?  Shaft splines in good shape?  

The nut here with the yellow dot?


It's exactly how I received it from Giles; Seems secure. Is this also the shaft you are asking about? I've never had it apart...

I assume this all looks correct...

[jseeley]

New injectors went in; Same behavior... Anyone have ideas? good compression, new pump, new injectors, timing correct. Starts up and just rev's up to red-line. I also put in my new vacuum pump o-ring to seal it up nice, no change though. Should I just pull the pump to get it looked at by Giles again? I'm stumped as well as many of my mechanic friends....

[8v-of-fury]

I know I am regretting saying this, but is it at all possible that something went wrong when Giles had the pump??

He is human, and humans make mistakes. If you've checked EVERYTHING else, then it is most likely an internal pump problem.

[jseeley]

I know I am regretting saying this, but is it at all possible that something went wrong when Giles had the pump??

He is human, and humans make mistakes. If you've checked EVERYTHING else, then it is most likely an internal pump problem.

I REALLY wish I had a spare pump to rule out the one I have... I don't want to believe it's the pump, but I'm not sure what it can be at this point. Anything else that can cause this high sticking idle besides something the pump itself? It's sound similar to some threads with injectors issues, and some other posts I've read about the pump not being secure on the bracket... but after replacing the injectors and doubling checking all the bracket bolts and I have no change. I'm going to re-check my timing ONE more time... If it's too advanced I suppose it would be doing this right?  but I've checked it so many times and its always the same... 

[8v-of-fury]

take it all apart maybe and start from scratch??

eliminating and possibility of ANYTHING being done incorrectly.. ?

[jseeley]

take it all apart maybe and start from scratch??

eliminating and possibility of ANYTHING being done incorrectly.. ?

Nothing has changed from when its was running well with the new pump, the behavior just sort of started while it was letting it sit at idle for 20-30mins, and I was just trying to rule everything out one by one after that, BUT I can certainly do just that.

[burn_your_money]

Call Giles and talk to him about it. It sure seems strange.

[jseeley]

Call Giles and talk to him about it. It sure seems strange.

I did give Giles a ring when this issue started; I've tried all the suggestions, Will call again. Thanks everyone.

[jseeley]

OK, just went and re-did everything. Here are some pics.

TDC on flywheel->


Pump sprocket->


Timing dial after rolling backward to zero out and coming back to TDC->

(reads between .96 & .97; Suppose to be .95+/- 0.02mm for my engine according to the bently)

Still stumped...