Massive Oil Leak

[SolarSteve]

It looks like its the IM shaft seal.  I finally got everything pulled off and when I lok at the IM shaft seal through the holes in the IM puley, I can see that the seal is push out about 1/2 way.

Does this mean that the bearing is bad?


Is it possible that I can just get a new seal and install it?

I definately need a new seal and a new T-belt, I'll wait to see what you guys have to say before I order, it Sunday anyway, so nothing is going to be open.

By the way, I haven't really searched the side of the block, but where I did look I did not see any plugs.

[SolarSteve]

Also, what is the best way to hold the cam from turning while trying to loosen the cam pulley bolt?

Thanks

[SolarSteve]

Thank you very very much.

I really hope to find the hole plugged.  If it is not how do I determine if the bearing is bad, try to wiggle the shaft?  If it wiggles it's bad?

Thanks, I'm off to Vinces links and then to pull the belt.

[SolarSteve]

When I pulled the IM pulley off the shaft the seal was stuck to the back side of the pulley, so I think I should be confident that that was where the oil was coming from.  Before I pulled the carrier the shaft had about 1/16 to maybe 1/8 inch play in and out, but no play at all up and down or back and forth.  After I pulled the carrier, I noticed the shaft would pull out, but I quickly stopped because I had images of something (maybe the oil pump) disengaging and I wouldn't be able to re-engage it.  From what I could see of the bearing with the shaft in place looked ok.  But I guess I will pull it out further for a more detailed inspection.

The carrier was pretty gungy and 1 hole was plugged...  Could that have caused this?  Until I get my parts I am on hold, so I began to clean the hub assy and underside of the car.  Everything is dripping oil.  This car will never rust.  I didn't clean the block yet because I am nervous of getting a bit of sand or something on the exposed IM bearing. After I get the seal and carrier reinstalled I clean up that area.

So, if I pull the IM shaft out I will be able to get it back in place, right?

Thanks

[rabbitman]

I really don't think the shaft should slide in/out at all.

You won't have a problem getting the shaft back in, the gears easily line back up all by thereselves.

The other thing, if the seal wanted to pop out a plugged breather would help shove it out. I'd check and make sure the breather isn't plugged including the VC port and like Andrew said, make sure the oil drain behind the IM seal isn't plugged.

If the seal drain was plugged it would push the oil out much faster than if the breather was plugged.

[fatmobile]

Do you have a problem with oil coming out the dipstick too?
 High block pressure from blowby can push seals out.
 There are 2 drain holes in the seal carrier right?
 You said one was plugged with grunge?
 I don't think one being plugged would cause the seal to push out.

[SolarSteve]

I have the VC vent vented to outside by means of and extended hose and I plugged the line that goes to the intake.  I am going to make sure that is clear.  I don't have oil  blowing out of the dipstick tube.  And only 1 of the 2 holes were plugged and the seal was stuck to the pulley so it had to be spinning with the pulley.  This had to be why it was leaking.

I changed out that seal about 2 years ago.  This was before I knew that Prothe parts are junk and I ordered an engine seal kit from him, so the seal that leaked is a Prothe seal.  I have no idea if it was a crappy seal or some other reason why this happened but it didn't leak for about 2 years and about 20,000 miles.  Yesterday I ordered a new seal and O-ring from German Auto Parts.

I have to watch my daughter for a few hours until my wife gets home and then I will go back out and inspect the bearing.  I'll report back then.

Also, if I install the T-belt as I install the IM pulley, would doing that keep me from having to loosen the cam pulley?

Thank you all very much for all the help.

[SolarSteve]

If the timing belt got oil soaked, it should be changed.  If you change the timing belt it is recommended to fine tune the cam timing again.  You can, of course, install the belt prior to loosening the cam, tension the tensioner, rotate clockwise to TDC and see if the slot in the back of the cam is perfectly aligned.  If it is aligned correctly and you know how to achieve proper belt tension, then there is no need to loosen the cam.

Thank you, that is exactly what I was talking about.  The belt is only 8 months old, but it got a lot of oil on it and I couldn't see re-using it.  Mabey I'll get lucky and everything will line up, if I don't have to loosen that bolt, I'd rather not.

[SolarSteve]

Once I get the new seal installed and the T-belt/timing done, I am thinking of leaving the crank pulley and acc. belts off for a 2 or 3 minune engine run to be sure this new seal isn't leaking.  I know the water pump won't be spinning for that time, do any of you guys think this is a bad idea?

thanks

[SolarSteve]

I pulled the IM shaft out a bit to inspect the bearing and I really couldn't get a good look at it.  The edge looks good and I didn't see any flakes on what I could see.  It reinstalled easily.

I drained the remainder of the oil, about 1 quart, maybe.  The filter still had oil in it.  I looked at the oil and I didn't find any metal.  I'm not going to try to cut open the filter,mainly because I would have to use a hacksaw to do it and thats going to make a huge mess.  I installed a new filter and added oil the easy way, no valve cover and it goes in NICE.  I poured about 1 quart in first with the drain plug
removed to flush out any bits of metal that might have been in there, found none.

I have been doing A LOT of cleaning.  I cleaned all of the pulleys, acc and T-belt pulleys as well as the T-belr covers.  Disassembled the front right brakes, cleaned reinstalled.  Clean the front and rear right side wheels/tires and wiped down what I could get at of the underside, mostly around the engine.  This made horrific mess, not to mention the trail I left for 5 miles...

I hope to get my parts tomorrow afternoon and with some luck I will have it running by nighttime.

[maxfax]

Once I get the new seal installed and the T-belt/timing done, I am thinking of leaving the crank pulley and acc. belts off for a 2 or 3 minune engine run to be sure this new seal isn't leaking.  I know the water pump won't be spinning for that time, do any of you guys think this is a bad idea?

thanks

If it's full of coolant you should be fine doing that for a few mins... And a darned good idea too..  Beats having to tear everything apart again, and destroying a new t-belt..

[SolarSteve]

Once I get the new seal installed and the T-belt/timing done, I am thinking of leaving the crank pulley and acc. belts off for a 2 or 3 minune engine run to be sure this new seal isn't leaking.  I know the water pump won't be spinning for that time, do any of you guys think this is a bad idea?

thanks

If it's full of coolant you should be fine doing that for a few mins... And a darned good idea too..  Beats having to tear everything apart again, and destroying a new t-belt..


Thanks, thats what I figured, its a pain as it is to install and tighten all the belts so why not test run it without any of them on or the T-belt covers too.  I was actually debating reusing the T-belt as new as it was, but then everytime I drive the car I would be worrying about it, so I'm doing the right thing and installing a new one.  I don't want to get this one all oily and have to get another one!

[rabbitman]

Using a hacksaw to cut the oil filter will result in very large particles of metal getting in the oil and causing you to do a full rebuild for no reason .

I large pipe cutter will do it cleanly.

[truckinwagen]

or a pair of good shears/tinsnips

[SolarSteve]

I might try the snips as I have a pair  

Also, does the IM seal need any type of sealant or does it go in dry?  I will put some lube on the o-ring.

thanks