Author Topic: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II  (Read 150645 times)

Reply #195April 10, 2013, 01:29:05 pm

Alleslowbuged

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #195 on: April 10, 2013, 01:29:05 pm »
Hi,

@Alcaid

It would like to run sequential turbo, but for me it is not as easy to manufacture and control a setup with two turbos, as it sounds in your post. Theres is also not so many space in a golf mk2 engine bay and i think packaging could be a real task by putting sequential turbos on the engine. I only put this turbo on the engine, because i want to know what happens and how it feels to have such a big turbine, the compressors from my previous S2a and S100 turbos was both absolute captable for all circumstances i could create with the AAZ engine.

I see clear benfits from the big turbine, because the measured 170 hp should be the most healthy 170 hp ever extracted from a AAZ. Unfortunately my egt sensor is not installed, because i did not want to drill a hole in the expensive manifold,  and before it was installed in the T3 / T25 adapter, but i am sure that the egt was in a good range during the hole dyno run, which was not the case with the smaller turbines und higher boost pressures.

As written before, i suspect not so bad spool with the qsv but with still good top end power, in fact it is than quite similar to sequential turbos.

Best Regards
Alleslowbuged 
VW Golf Mk1 (Typ 17) 1981 with 1.6 TD
BMW E28 524 TD

Reply #196April 10, 2013, 05:48:10 pm

carrizog60

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #196 on: April 10, 2013, 05:48:10 pm »
vw golf gti G60--vw passat 1.9td gt2052v
yamaha vmax 1200- yamaha tdm 850
Portugal

Reply #197April 11, 2013, 02:31:35 am

Alcaid

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #197 on: April 11, 2013, 02:31:35 am »
Theres is also not so many space in a golf mk2 engine bay and i think packaging could be a real task by putting sequential turbos on the engine.

I know all about that, I am in the progress of tossing it all into a mk1, it is giving me a headache and grey hairs...

As written before, i suspect not so bad spool with the qsv but with still good top end power, in fact it is than quite similar to sequential turbos.

Not even close to a sequential setup! No matter how small A/R on your turbine housing you still need to spool up a turbo with big and heavy internals. Will never beat the spool up of a way smaller turbo, and at the same time the small turbo is helping to spool the big one as it is pulling air through it meaning you spool the big turbo on both wheels instead of just on the turbine.

Anyway, I really appreciate your postings on this forum, your experiments and your way of documenting the results and sharing with us is really appreciated! :)
'03 VW Golf PD130 4Motion Highline
'10 VW Passat 1.6TDI Highline
'83 VW Jetta 1.6TD, 11mm pump, H-beam rods, girdle, fully reworked AAZ head +++ Going Compound ;)

Reply #198April 11, 2013, 03:31:52 am

Alleslowbuged

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #198 on: April 11, 2013, 03:31:52 am »
Hi,

@Alcaid
I agree on all points, i just wanted to state out that i was aware of the result of the big turbine housing and the very high inertia of the turbo rotor, before i install the S2B, but nevertheless wanted to see what will be the power output and how the engine will feel through the complete power band.

Best Regards
Alleslowbuged
VW Golf Mk1 (Typ 17) 1981 with 1.6 TD
BMW E28 524 TD

Reply #199April 11, 2013, 06:08:43 pm

Alleslowbuged

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #199 on: April 11, 2013, 06:08:43 pm »
Hi,

here are two crappy handy vids from today:

back view (smoke check):


front view:


I also carry out a new G-tech run today and ended up with 15,44s @ 149,75 km/h for the 1/4 mile. I still analyse the data, so more to that topic tomorrow. What is very starnge is, that i get up to 1,5 bar boost pressure in second gear and full 2,0 bar in all higher gears. I suspect that the turbo needs to "run in" and get loose in the bearings, but did never heard that before for a turbo charger. I mean that a sleeve bearings, they normaly should perform right out of the box, but pherhaps the clearance is really really tight in factory condition, which would mean that i should not have stressed the turbo so high for a while.

Best Reagrds
Alleslowbuged
VW Golf Mk1 (Typ 17) 1981 with 1.6 TD
BMW E28 524 TD

Reply #200June 04, 2013, 10:18:34 am

RabbitJockey

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #200 on: June 04, 2013, 10:18:34 am »
any updates from deutschland?
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #201June 04, 2013, 02:45:18 pm

Alleslowbuged

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #201 on: June 04, 2013, 02:45:18 pm »
Hi,

yes some strange things goes on, but later on that.

First my QSV arrives last week (good), i was willing to install it last weekend, but than i get a cold and also could not find a shop for heat resistance bolts to fit the turbo with the quick spool valve. Than i have done some maintenance, like proper fitting the rear bumper after some f..king stupid idiot crash into the rear bumber (during the car was parked on the side of a street) and did not stop to tell me,  polish the car to get i red again, readjust the rear hand brake, put some oil in it, put some water in it and so on. It is sheduled to install the QSV next weekend, so i hope to come back with something interesting than.

Now we come to strange thing, as i write earlier the big turbo has increased the max. possible boost level from a bit more than 1,0 bar to over 2,0 bar after the first week of driving. Now i want to know what is the max. boost level so i ordered a 3,0 bar (~45 psi) boost gauge from VDO and installed it some minutes ago, but instead showing me how far the max. boost level is above two bar (~30 psi) it shows only a bit more than 1,0 bar (15 psi) as max. boost level. I have to say that i only accelerate hard in second and third gear, so i assume to get it near 1,5 bar in fourth and fifth gear but way of what the other boost gauge shows. Now it's gets even more complicated, the first boost gauge (range of 1,5 bar) i have used has shown a lot less boost than the second one (range of 2,0 bar) (you can read this a few pages ago), but because the first one was a 10€ cheap no name thing from ebay i was sure the 40€ brand second gauge would be the correct one. Now you could argue the first one was correct as the new VDO is either, but this would mean the last dyno run with 1,0 bar from the second would have been conducted by far less than 1,0 bar wich would be not in line with the measured power figures.  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

The only thing i can imagine in the moment is, that the first gauge was bull***, the second was correct up to the point the boost level of the S2B turbo increases without a reason and also the VDO is correct now. But the question mark there is, why should a boost gauge start over night to show nearly twice the boost as bevore? What would be in line with that, is the fact that my 1/4 mile time with 1,0 bar at the gauge (right after the dyno run) was nearly identical with the one with more than 2,0 bar at the gauge.

Here are all analysed G-Tech runs:
(purple und orange are two runs from februar 2012 with >2,0 bar, light blue is actual with S2B turbo >2,0 bar (second gauage), green is actual performance curve in second gear)

   

here is direct comparement between 2012 (S100) and 2013 (S2B):


and here G vs. speed:


and here is g vs. time (stock g-tech plot), which is useless because it shows you higher g's at higher time when you was slow up to there and your speed is therefore also slower


here is a comparement beween the engine load from dyno run and g-tech data, corrected for drag and drive train losses:
(the dotted ine is g-tech, the other is dyno run)


and last but not least two pictures of the QSV and an actual one from the golf:








  







  

    
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 02:51:09 pm by Alleslowbuged »
VW Golf Mk1 (Typ 17) 1981 with 1.6 TD
BMW E28 524 TD

Reply #202June 04, 2013, 06:18:37 pm

RabbitJockey

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #202 on: June 04, 2013, 06:18:37 pm »
Very nice to get an update! Good luck with your qsv

Ill have to read over the last page so i can understand what youre saying about the gauge issue,  its alot to keep track of!
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #203June 05, 2013, 01:41:21 am

Alleslowbuged

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #203 on: June 05, 2013, 01:41:21 am »
Hi,

sorry it is difficult for me to explain in english without using 1000 words, here is a short try:

First boost gauge has a range of 1,5 bar.
Second boost gauge has a range of 2,0 bar and has shown much higher boost as the first gauge under the same conditions. At that time i was sure the first gauge was wrong, because it was very cheap.
Third boost gauge has a range of 3,0 bar and now shows much lower values than the second gauge under the same conditions.

I hope that make it a bit easier to understand.

Best Regards
Alleslowbuged
 
VW Golf Mk1 (Typ 17) 1981 with 1.6 TD
BMW E28 524 TD

Reply #204June 05, 2013, 08:02:23 am

RabbitJockey

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #204 on: June 05, 2013, 08:02:23 am »
Hi,

sorry it is difficult for me to explain in english without using 1000 words, here is a short try:

First boost gauge has a range of 1,5 bar.
Second boost gauge has a range of 2,0 bar and has shown much higher boost as the first gauge under the same conditions. At that time i was sure the first gauge was wrong, because it was very cheap.
Third boost gauge has a range of 3,0 bar and now shows much lower values than the second gauge under the same conditions.

I hope that make it a bit easier to understand.

Best Regards
Alleslowbuged
 

your english is very good actually, and i understood all of what u repeated, i meant i didn't quite understand the context of it as far as whether or not you were actually making more power at much lower boost with the larger turbo or not.
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #205June 05, 2013, 02:44:47 pm

mtrans

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #205 on: June 05, 2013, 02:44:47 pm »
Hard on English too but,
You know most instruments have better reading in last 1/3 of range.
I`ll improve my English

Reply #206June 05, 2013, 03:08:03 pm

Alleslowbuged

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #206 on: June 05, 2013, 03:08:03 pm »
Hi,

i know that, but we speak here 2,0 bar to 1,0 bar this is 100% diffrence, or would be 30% uncertainty for the 3 bar gauge. Normal uncertainty for a pressure gauge is 1%, which would mean 0,02 bar for the 2,0 bar gauge and 0,03 bar for the 3,0 bar gauge, so the issue is not uncertainty. I think i will make a comaprison with all 3 gauges at the same pressure line and will check what the show.

Best regards 
VW Golf Mk1 (Typ 17) 1981 with 1.6 TD
BMW E28 524 TD

Reply #207June 05, 2013, 07:13:24 pm

RabbitJockey

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #207 on: June 05, 2013, 07:13:24 pm »
For my job i work on pft testing and life support equipment if u waste a bunch of money on shipping i can certify all your gauges haha!
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 07:19:07 pm by RabbitJockey »
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

Reply #208June 08, 2013, 10:50:43 am

Alleslowbuged

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #208 on: June 08, 2013, 10:50:43 am »
Hi,

i have some news on the gauge issue. Today i have checked all my boost gauges with my compressor, here are the results:


First Test:
old gauge (from my old mk1)              0,60 bar
first gauge (cheap from ebay)             0,58 bar
second gauge                                  0,98 bar  (this is the one i have used the last month)
third gauage (VDO)                           0,55 bar

Second Test:
old gauge (from my old mk1)               1,17 bar
first gauge (cheap from ebay)             1,09 bar
second gauge                                  1,70 bar  (this is the one i have used the last month)
third gauage (VDO)                           1,10 bar

I think it is easily to see that my last gauge (second one) is not working properly and shows way to high boost pressure. This also means that the last dyno run with 170 hp was maximum with 1,0 bar boost, expected to be even a bit lower. What i realy like on this finding is, that this means that i can dismount the complete wastegate and do not have to bother with a new dump pipe. Second benefit is that i can use the wastegate flange to fit a blind flange, which will carry my egt sensor, so i do not have to drill a hole in the rather expensive exhaust manifold.

Unfortunatelly i did not have had enough time to install the QSV today, but i testet the opening pressure and was pretty happy with is. I will start to open at approximate 0,4 bar, at 0,5 bar it tis still nearly close and at aprroximate 1,0 bar it is fully open. This means that i do not need a boost controller for the opening sequence, because that are nearly exact the values i want to have. I think it would be even more effective to start openeing a bit later, but i worry to get a surge problem in that case.

Best Regards
Alleslowbuged

P.S. Pherhaps i will be able to getting a papmahl GTD II exhaust system, which would mean best diesel sound on planet earth  ;D ;D
  
  
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 10:52:36 am by Alleslowbuged »
VW Golf Mk1 (Typ 17) 1981 with 1.6 TD
BMW E28 524 TD

Reply #209June 08, 2013, 01:29:49 pm

RabbitJockey

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Re: Golf II GTD with 1.9 AAZ engine --- EVO II
« Reply #209 on: June 08, 2013, 01:29:49 pm »
ok time for 2 bar!!!!!

but in all seriousness the large turbo is very cool!  it looks like you can easily adjust the qsv to add more preload to it so it doesn't open as soon,  maybe tighten it until you get some surge and then back it off a hair and enjoy much faster boost.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 01:35:09 pm by RabbitJockey »
01 Jetta TDI 100% stock daily
81 Rabbit:TDI-M ported head, Frank06 cam, PD intake, hybrid T3 turbo, Renault intercooler, Syl20 11mm pump, light weight fw, and yellow California Clutch clutch kit

 

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