MK1 pass motor mount: all bolts out, still stuck!

[ldeikis]

EDIT

Nevermind, it finally, barely, unhappily came out, after a couple hours of misery.  Mods feel free to nuke this one.

If not, for posterity--it does go out the bottom, after you've loosened several other motor mounts, allowed the motor to sag a lot more than seems a good idea, swore a lot, and busted hell out of your hands.  I can't even imagine doing this with the top end on the motor; seems like dropping the whole thing out of the car would be WAAAAAAAAY easier.  What a b*tch.  Amazing that a car that seems so user friendly would have such a nightmare hiding down there...

And the stupid old mount isn't even shredded up, a little squashed but I'll be amazed if this solves my issue (violent bucking while in reverse)

The new mount from PartsPlace looks like it's made out of foam rubber, though...  I don't think I can bring myself to install it given the hassle of replacing it.  That TT one looks awful attractive...

Luke

[8v-of-fury]

Violent bucking while in reverse may be that your not doing it correctly. The engine spins the same way regardless of gear choice.. if it bucks in reverse it will buck in 1st.

is it a 5 speed? FN trans? Using reverse requires finesse of the clutch, just dumpin it and giving it gas will buck the engine because the rpms are too low.

Possible??

[rabbitman]

I know what he's talking about, a normal startup in 1st (for me) is keep the rpm at....say, a steady 1000rpm and let the clutch out with a slight drop in rpm (torque is neat ), everything sounds smooth.

Repeat that in reverse and the engine vibrates (no bucking) really hard and the dash falls apart, cd skips and my vision blurs......you get the idea.

It's an rpm thing, rev it higher and slip the clutch a little more and it doesn't do that. I also get the same frequency of vibration at idle (850rpm) after driving through deep snow, my guess is it packs snow in the engine mount.

Get this......the terrible vibration in reverse started after I put in a new mount ......a few years ago .

[ldeikis]

Violent bucking while in reverse may be that your not doing it correctly. The engine spins the same way regardless of gear choice.. if it bucks in reverse it will buck in 1st.is it a 5 speed? FN trans? Using reverse requires finesse of the clutch, just dumpin it and giving it gas will buck the engine because the rpms are too low.

I know the engine always turns in one direction, but the torque applied to it from the transaxle/wheels would be different trying to pull forwards than reverse, no? 

I've been driving sticks all my life and this is different from anything normal I've experienced, but this rabbit *is* the only mk1 diesel I've driven...  so I don't concretely know this is abnormal, and it also makes it hard to know how much dash shaking is "normal"--it shakes a lot at idle, but I kind of thought that was par for the course.

It's a FF, and it's totally smooth and normal in 1st, like any other stick I've driven.  But in reverse you HAVE to rev the engine up and constantly slip the clutch or the car really bucks around horribly.  It's not just an engagement thing, you really can't let the clutch all the way out in reverse without the car really bucking.  That's on flat ground.  On even a slight incline it's a lot worse--even the amount of slope encountered doing a 3 point turn on a crowned road is enough to really aggravate it--and if you have to do something like back up a hill or a ramp or something, it's nuts--feels like the car is going to tear itself  apart.  The only exception is if you're backing up a long distance, like a full city block, and you really get moving you can let the clutch out entirely so long as you maintain at least even speed or are gently accelerating the whole while.  If you let off the gas even a touch without a lot of clutch, it bucks really bad even then.  I've been just slipping the clutch and trying to drive in a way that never requires me to back up even a  slight incline for 2 years now, but since I'm most of the way to the mount, anyway, I thought it was a good time to swap it.

Get this......the terrible vibration in reverse started after I put in a new mount ......a few years ago .

Bummer... 

This isn't my photo, but is pretty much exactly what my old and new motor mounts look like:


The other pictures of blown mounts I've seen are more torn up than that, but if that's blown then my mount is blown, too.  The tears are identical.  My new part also looks exactly like the one pictured, complete with little floppy black ears on the bottom "arm" instead of what seems to be a metal part in the old mount.  The OP of that photo had the new mount tear again in less than 4k.

I'm going to put in the TT mount I think. 

It does go in oriented like this, right, so the "v" points down:



Luke

[rs899]

Mine kinda bucks in reverse too.  I think it has to do with the fact that the Mk1 rear mount ( the one under the driver's right foot) that is normally loaded in forward gears is now unloaded and perhaps acting more like a rubber band in reverse.  The thrust is now on the wimpy front mount on the radiator support..perhaps some attention to that one would be warranted.

Rick

[ldeikis]

Mine kinda bucks in reverse too.  I think it has to do with the fact that the Mk1 rear mount ( the one under the driver's right foot) that is normally loaded in forward gears is now unloaded and perhaps acting more like a rubber band in reverse.  The thrust is now on the wimpy front mount on the radiator support..perhaps some attention to that one would be warranted.

My first thought was also that it was likely the front or rear mount allowing the engine to twist along the axis of the driveshafts.   The PO said (ha!) he replaced all but the pass mount 3 years ago now.  The rear seems healthy, and I replaced the front one a while back even though it seemed alright because it's cheap and easy and seemed the likely culprit.  I also shimmed that mount closer to the engine with a few giant washers to make the "ball" tighter into the cup with absolutely no change... 

Luke

[8v-of-fury]

No doubt that your mount is blown. replacing it will help a lot.

however i still think it will buck in reverse afterwords. I have driven many other sticks as well, newer cars have much nicer clutch systems. Reverse gear is a very tall gear, I have done 40km/h in reverse easily before not screaming the engine. which means it is around the same gearing as 2nd or 3rd gear. These old cars need to have the clutch slip A LOT to have a smooth reversal.

What I meant by the bucking being the same in reverse or first, is that if it really is the pass mount being that bad... (because of the mount) then it should also want to buck when starting in first. I really think your just not giving it slightly enough pedal, you don't gotta drop the clutch at three grand or anything probably 1500-1700 rpm will make a smooth reversal.

[rabbitman]

Mine didn't do the "bucking" until I changed the pass mount, no idea why.

In reverse the rear of the engine wants to go up, therefore pulling up/stretching the rear tranny mount.

The front mount (torque stopper) would try to go down, if the engine were to move down that would lever the engine down on the passenger mount and probably give the same results as if it were worn out.

I know your supposed to center the ball in the socket but I wonder, what would happen if you move the socket up tight against the ball?

I wish reverse was geared a lot lower

TT also has harder front mounts that would squish less and maybe fix the problem.