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eco diesel injection vs 1.6 turbo AKA alda injection pump
by
NintendoKD
on 09 Dec, 2009 00:57
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I am opening this thread due to confusing/misleading information I have found on the forums "not just here" The answer is easy I'm sure since "you cannot have your cake and eat it too" For my build, for those who aren't aware, I am mating an aaz head to a 1.6 mech block and turbocharging it till the arp studs bust JK. I am trying to determine the best way to go when it comes to the fuel pump. I have been told by some that the 1.6 alda or turbo pump has a superior boost pin design and puts out enough fuel to do what I want. Perhaps it is that I am truly stupid, misinformed, or perhaps even that I am simply mistaken, because of high hopes. I do know that from some tests, lowering the pressure of injectors increases fuel economy, I do not know if this can be used with my turbo app. without performance losses, and make it work well. I also am not sure which is going to give me the best fuel or direct fuel to the injectors for my app. the eco diesel will give better fuel economy, but does this mean that I will lose performance? I do plan to send the pump off to giles to be tuned, so I'm not even sure if any of this is going to matter, however, in the long run this may help someone seeking the answer but unsure of the question. If the ecodiesel can do all that the alda pump can do but gives me better fuel economy I want to do it, and if the lower pressure injectors will give me better fuel economy without performance losses then I want to do that also. Again I must apologize for my ignorance, and any inconvinience this may have caused any of you to have to suffer through.
thank you,
Kevin
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#1
by
745 turbogreasel
on 09 Dec, 2009 01:03
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The eco pump gets good MPG by not doing what the ALDA pump does.
You can turn the eco pump up to compensate, but your off boost soot will make headlights behind you invisible, and baby Jesus cry.
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#2
by
8v-of-fury
on 09 Dec, 2009 06:16
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Turbo, ECO, and N/A pumps can all provide the engine with the exact same amount of fuel. The difference of the Turbo pump over the other two is that as boost increases it will fuel accordingly.. meaning minimal smoke and maximum use of the fuel you are pumping in.
Lowering injector break pressure runs the risk of pre-ignition in the cylinders, does it not? Why don't you contact some of the people who have been successfully driving the 1.6/1.9 engines? The only one coming to mind right now is Smokey Eddy.
Fuel economy rests solely on your right foot with these cars.
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#3
by
NintendoKD
on 09 Dec, 2009 06:42
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cool, makes sense, exactly as I thought. I do very much not enjoy black smoke. Thanks guys,
Kevin
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#4
by
NintendoKD
on 09 Dec, 2009 11:02
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I read about all of that somewhere before, very good to know. So glad I can get the correct info, the plan is to use a 1.6 turbo pump from a vanagon or another 1.6 turbo engine with the alma on top. Now, just how to find one of those pumps is the challenge.
thanks again guys,
Kevin
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#5
by
8v-of-fury
on 09 Dec, 2009 17:26
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Turbo, ECO, and N/A pumps can all provide the engine with the exact same amount of fuel.
The ECO pumps actually had 8mm plungers instead of the 9mm plungers in all of the other pumps so they are worse than any other 1.6 N/A or TD pump.
One of the greatest misconceptions WRT the ECOdiesels is that they were designed for fuel ECOnomy. Not the case, they were detuned for emissions not for fuel economy. ECOlogical not ECOnomical. The marketing department did a number with the name. Most of the differences between the ECO and "real" properly tuned 1.6TD result in WORSE fuel economy but fewer emissions.
I do not believe that there is any risk with lower breaking pressures provided that the timing is adjusted. I have run non-turbo breaking pressures in 20+ psi applications without issue.
Ahhh, thank you for fixing that up Andrew. That was a killer marketing scheme by VW for sure. I wanted a Eco diesel when i was looking for my first vw.. settled for a 1.7 gasser instead lol
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#6
by
NintendoKD
on 09 Dec, 2009 19:02
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good info, ufo it is then
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#7
by
NintendoKD
on 09 Dec, 2009 20:21
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Got a 1.6 turbo pump today from ebay, now I need a rebuild kit and some info on how to tune this monster. Giles will have to come later, when I have more money. thanks for all of the help guys.
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#8
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 10 Dec, 2009 08:49
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post a pic of the pump, one of the guys can id it. i dont think its what they were supposed to sell you tho.
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#9
by
NintendoKD
on 10 Dec, 2009 11:57
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it was one of these that is the "alma" UFO on top there is it not?
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#10
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 10 Dec, 2009 17:22
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it was one of these that is the "alma" UFO on top there is it not?
im pretty sure thats a van fuel pump. one of the others might want to confirm that, but if it is, you should trade it off for a TD car pump, way easier to tune. and the boost enrichment on top, its called the LDA.
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#11
by
NintendoKD
on 10 Dec, 2009 17:42
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I can read french.... some what
, I took five years of latin and greek for med-school, I have been gathering some of my info from the foreign side of the forum. Good guys over there. This is in fact the td pump it is too tall to be the vanagon one just looks a little different because it is pictured backwards.
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#12
by
vanbcguy
on 11 Dec, 2009 08:27
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That's a straight up TD pump... The van pump has the LDA mounted on its side. You can tell it's a proper TD pump by the adjusting bolt on the top of the aneroid.
In fact it's a 109 style pump, meaning it's from a later motor (but probably not an AAZ). Has the idle speed adjustment connected to the cold start too...
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#13
by
Rabbit on Roids
on 11 Dec, 2009 09:59
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so the late pumps are better? for what reasons?
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#14
by
Powered by Spearco
on 11 Dec, 2009 12:55
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The later pumps have the idle up control when cold start advance is pulled. Also the boost pin is a 12mm rather than a 11mm pin in the early pumps. So one could fit a Rover TD boost pin if wanted or a custom grind.