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Author Topic: GOVERNOR MOD  (Read 14341 times)

Reply #15January 10, 2010, 06:42:10 pm

Alcaid

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2010, 06:42:10 pm »
So how much shimming of the main spring is needed for a 6k rpm engine? 1/4", 5/16", more, less?
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Reply #16January 10, 2010, 07:31:10 pm

8v-of-fury

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2010, 07:31:10 pm »
I have another thread roughly about the same thing, and I was told that these engines will reach and sustain 5350 +/- 20 floored in neutral. These engines could run forever at 5300rpm, they are built like tanks.

When shimming even small amounts of the main spring, such as the 1/4" results in fueling way higher in the rpm range.. if no shims on a stock pump and engine result in 5300rpm floored in neutral.. i think adding a 3/16" shim would make the governor react a lot better to pedal movement.

Does anyone have a tach, and an engine that has been shimmed with a small shim on the main spring only? What was your maximum rpm achieved?

This is something I definitely want to experiment with when i dig the diesel out in the spring.

Reply #17January 10, 2010, 10:31:06 pm

wolf_walker

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2010, 10:31:06 pm »
I have another thread roughly about the same thing, and I was told that these engines will reach and sustain 5350 +/- 20 floored in neutral.


Isn't the Bentley procedure to set full throttle RPM in part with the full throttle stop screw to whatever the stated max rpm for the given motor is?  It's lower on the hyd motors seems like, they are all somewhere around 5K.


I have another question along these lines.  Am I the only one that almost never floors these things?  I have never had one, out of half a dozen or more, all stock pumps mind you, that accelerated any faster at WOT than they did at half or maybe 3/4.  Some of them smoked more with more throttle, but beyond a point they just don't do any more on a stock pump.  This is NA mind you.
I always thought it was odd people saying to tweak on the full load screw, and I never bother since I seldom hit it.
What I'd like is, what feels like, less fuel cut at moderate but not FULL throttle.  If that makes any sense.
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Reply #18January 10, 2010, 11:19:18 pm

burn_your_money

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2010, 11:19:18 pm »
I almost never hit full throttle, to be honest I don't think I go past 1/2 throttle.
Tyler

Reply #19January 11, 2010, 06:40:06 am

gldgti

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2010, 06:40:06 am »
I have another thread roughly about the same thing, and I was told that these engines will reach and sustain 5350 +/- 20 floored in neutral.


Isn't the Bentley procedure to set full throttle RPM in part with the full throttle stop screw to whatever the stated max rpm for the given motor is?  It's lower on the hyd motors seems like, they are all somewhere around 5K.


I have another question along these lines.  Am I the only one that almost never floors these things?  I have never had one, out of half a dozen or more, all stock pumps mind you, that accelerated any faster at WOT than they did at half or maybe 3/4.  Some of them smoked more with more throttle, but beyond a point they just don't do any more on a stock pump.  This is NA mind you.
I always thought it was odd people saying to tweak on the full load screw, and I never bother since I seldom hit it.
What I'd like is, what feels like, less fuel cut at moderate but not FULL throttle.  If that makes any sense.

in a n/a car, this is all completely understandable - you just dont have any go... that last 1/4 of the throttle movement really doesnt do much.

a turbo car is quite a different thing altogether :-D
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Reply #20January 11, 2010, 07:49:24 am

regcheeseman

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2010, 07:49:24 am »
I beg to differ on this issue  ;D

I've always tended to remove the intermediate and preload the main for a bit more rev ceiling - but then I use a 1mm preload.

In the other camp are those who shim 6mm into the main only. I can understand their reservations about driveability but 6 :o mm preload is a hell of a lot.

After studing the linkage in depth - i'd probably go for the main spring in future, but not as prescribed.....

Reply #21January 11, 2010, 11:57:53 am

Rabbit on Roids

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2010, 11:57:53 am »
I beg to differ on this issue  ;D

I've always tended to remove the intermediate and preload the main for a bit more rev ceiling - but then I use a 1mm preload.

In the other camp are those who shim 6mm into the main only. I can understand their reservations about driveability but 6 :o mm preload is a hell of a lot.

After studing the linkage in depth - i'd probably go for the main spring in future, but not as prescribed.....

i shimmed 5 or 6 mm, and it works great. the governor on it now lets me turn more rpms than my gas GTI.

Reply #22January 11, 2010, 12:13:26 pm

regcheeseman

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2010, 12:13:26 pm »
Quote
i shimmed 5 or 6 mm, and it works great. the governor on it now lets me turn more rpms than my gas GTI.

Any reason for this rather than simply replacing the main spring with something solid?

Reply #23January 11, 2010, 07:53:59 pm

wolf_walker

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2010, 07:53:59 pm »
So...      Does the gov mod have any effect at part throttle accel?

I don't have my head around how this thing works yet even after a lot of reading.
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Reply #24January 11, 2010, 08:59:41 pm

Rabbit on Roids

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2010, 08:59:41 pm »
it allows for more fuel at higher rpms...

Reply #25January 11, 2010, 10:10:33 pm

theman53

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2010, 10:10:33 pm »
I think of it as a "wave" in an aquarium. All the springs will compress at the same time a little bit and push on eachother. Basically, every action opposite and equal reaction. By making the main spring stiffer it will fight the advance of the governor weights more. That will keep more fuel in the injection. The main spring unmodded has some overlap with the other springs, when it is stiffened it doesn't and fueling at all RPMs is a little better. ----That is the way I see it working in there for those wondering.

I don't know what a solid piece will do. I wanted a little bit of rev control. I liked what I did...you could experiment and tell us if it works or not :D

Reply #26January 12, 2010, 07:35:00 am

regcheeseman

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2010, 07:35:00 am »
Quote
...you could experiment and tell us if it works or not


That's the problem, many have experimented and they all have the best solution  ::)

Your logic makes perfect sense but the overlap between the two springs is not at all linear, the intermediate, being light and very short travel (0.8mm IIRC) tends to act as a damper more than a governer. The main spring, being much heavier only really starts comes into play when the intermediate is fully compressed.

However I think that retaining a degree of springiness may be a good idea at the very top end, but when talk is made of large shims, surely the main is nearly coilbound anyway? Hence others just fitting a solid spacer and job done...

Reply #27January 25, 2010, 01:32:38 am

8v-of-fury

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2010, 01:32:38 am »
Sorry to dig this one up, but it needs for sure clarification.  ;)

However I think that retaining a degree of springiness may be a good idea at the very top end, but when talk is made of large shims, surely the main is nearly coilbound anyway? Hence others just fitting a solid spacer and job done...

What exactly would shimming the main completely do? Because in some pictures..

This picture clearly shows that the main spring only has about a few mm of travel before the two spring seats meet.


This picture shows that three small washers easily takes up all the space and eliminates the main spring.


This picture shows a solid shimmed main, and roughly 4mm of shim on the intermediate spring..


It looks as though the main spring is completely out of the equation without any shimming at all, as 3mm disables it. the intermediate spring is then shimmed with 3-4mm itself, and looks as though before being completely coil bound it can only move around 3mm.

It is almost a solid governor! Would this car have had driving problems? The intermediate spring looks fairly strong, this car would rev in almost an instant... from what it looks.

So my question is, what is the best method? From what I can see, the main spring only moved 3-4mm.. shimming it that far disables its function... shimming the main spring anymore than that would effectively be putting a pre-load on the intermediate spring.. as the left side seat is stationary to the cage.. it can only go left and compress the intermediate spring...

I (among many other I'm sure) am looking for a definite answer as to what the correct shimming is for best driveability/performance factors.. I have an old pump here, I may tear it down tomorrow and do some investigating on the Governor cage.. but won't be able to install it to test it on a running engine.

Reply #28January 25, 2010, 10:19:34 am

Rabbit on Roids

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2010, 10:19:34 am »
thats wrong. its not gonna run right. period. this is one of those on going things. most people shim the ingetmediate spring, but you need to shim the main. the intermediate is the spring the pump uses for driving around and stuff (not idle, but not WOT either) and the main spring is the one that actually is used in high rpms and to cut fuel. you get hanging idle, and all sorts of driveability problems doing the intermediate.

and in those pics, thats NOT the main spring.

it goes:
1.) idle spring
2.) intermediate spring
3.) main spring

and the main spring is closest to the throttle shaft.. the idle spring is the one on the end thats outside the cage.

either way, 2 stainless nuts (1/4") under the main spring works just like a stock governor but it turns 7000. lol.

Reply #29January 25, 2010, 11:29:43 am

8v-of-fury

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Re: GOVERNOR MOD
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2010, 11:29:43 am »
My bad Kevo, thanks for clearing it up  ;D

So in my pics is what NOT to do or you WILL have driveability issues with a solid shimmed INTERMEDIATE spring.

This pic (from a considerable consensus) is the proper method on how to do the "Governor Mod" correctly! Sorry for the confusion in my last post! lol This will effectively allow the pump to feel that it has a stiffer main spring and allow for more fuel at all rpm ranges under load.



p.s are there actually any definitive DIY's out there that properly outline the steps needed and the correct shims to put in the correct spots? lol

 

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