Author Topic: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??  (Read 52638 times)

Reply #90January 15, 2013, 05:40:36 pm

CRSMP5

  • Guest
Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #90 on: January 15, 2013, 05:40:36 pm »
really....  ;D  burnt toast in sig.... thread here on fourm for build and all... but my pages got more pics...

its 1 of approx 500 vw powered grumman kubvan... used mk1 firewall forward pedals/suspention... firewall back most have dasher rear suspention.. under 100 have truck leaf style which gives tons more room in back... mine is that version... ive seen 4 in person of the "leaf style" most are the other...

why important... bunkbeds i built for that trip for multi campers... no room in the other style..

Reply #91January 17, 2013, 09:25:42 am

Rising

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 385
Re: Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #91 on: January 17, 2013, 09:25:42 am »
That is awesome! Sorry I didn't see the signature.. I use tapatalk on my phone to check the forums so no signatures :(

I'll sign on to a computer and find the build thread! That thing is beautiful. Sorry to detour!

Worst gas mileage yet was my last tank at 43... best has been 47. I want to see 50 ;D
'84 Rabbit Diesel- 1.6D Stock

Reply #92January 17, 2013, 09:43:43 pm

8v-of-fury

  • Guest
Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #92 on: January 17, 2013, 09:43:43 pm »
I want to see 50 ;D

Pump up those tires, empty the trunk and run a synthetic oil. Should get you there.

Reply #93February 01, 2013, 11:22:31 am

Rising

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 385
Re: Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #93 on: February 01, 2013, 11:22:31 am »
I tried raising my tire pressure up from the 30 psi I have it at to 44ish which is shy of the tire manufacturers Max psi. The ride was unbearable. So I went back down after a week or so. Maybe I could split the difference. (The 195s I'm running probably don't help economy ;D )

Admittedly I have been helping my friend out by hauling his stuff (and him) around after his house burned down. So that could be the cause of my latest tank at 40 MPG...

What weight synthetic should I run?

Im also running a td block and injectors with a n/a pump and no turbo. Could there be some negative effects of that setup? Should I retard timing some because of the td injectors? Add my vnt? Turn down my pump?

Sent from my ThunderBolt using Tapatalk 2
'84 Rabbit Diesel- 1.6D Stock

Reply #94February 05, 2013, 02:25:05 am

R.O.R-2.0

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 7335
  • Personal Text
    Pacific Northwest - Oregon - USA
Re: Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #94 on: February 05, 2013, 02:25:05 am »
I tried raising my tire pressure up from the 30 psi I have it at to 44ish which is shy of the tire manufacturers Max psi. The ride was unbearable. So I went back down after a week or so. Maybe I could split the difference. (The 195s I'm running probably don't help economy ;D )

Admittedly I have been helping my friend out by hauling his stuff (and him) around after his house burned down. So that could be the cause of my latest tank at 40 MPG...

What weight synthetic should I run?

Im also running a td block and injectors with a n/a pump and no turbo. Could there be some negative effects of that setup? Should I retard timing some because of the td injectors? Add my vnt? Turn down my pump?

Sent from my ThunderBolt using Tapatalk 2

you need MORE timing with TD injectors, being that they have HIGHER brake pressures than n/a injectors..

get that VNT on there, it will give you more MPG..

what is your engine timed to? 1mm?
92 Jetta GLI - Black, 1.6D w/ GT2056V turbo..
86 GTI - 4 Door, Med Twilight Gray, Tow Machine..
86 Audi Coupe GT - Tornado Red, All Stock.. WRECKED.
89 Toyota 4Runner - Dark Grey Metallic, LIFTED!

Turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.

Reply #95March 05, 2013, 11:22:29 am

Rising

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 385
Re: Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #95 on: March 05, 2013, 11:22:29 am »
Man I missed this thread. Tapatalk has been not notifying me lately.

Anyway. I am running a lot of advance. Maybe too much. Which is why I considered backing it off a bit. I took to heart vince waldons statement that the worst thing that can happen with too much advance is bad power and bad fuel economy, evidenced by white smoke.

Currently my timing is set at 1.37mm. After I got the timing close I knew the turbo injectors were gonna be different so since it was running rough I just kept advancing it little by little till it started running good. Then checked timing again. I don't use the cold start mechanism and the car starts flawlessly.

But now after seeing my efficiency over the past few tanks I think I might need to back it down to the 1.20 range or so. . .

Hopefully I don't get flamed too hard for timing by ear ::) ;D

Also: when I put the vnt on my plan was to set timing back to 1.05 and tweak from there.

Sent from my ThunderBolt using Tapatalk 2
'84 Rabbit Diesel- 1.6D Stock

Reply #96March 06, 2013, 05:36:24 pm

vanbcguy

  • Administrator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 2831
  • Personal Text
    Vancouver, BC
Re: Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #96 on: March 06, 2013, 05:36:24 pm »
Man I missed this thread. Tapatalk has been not notifying me lately.

Anyway. I am running a lot of advance. Maybe too much. Which is why I considered backing it off a bit. I took to heart vince waldons statement that the worst thing that can happen with too much advance is bad power and bad fuel economy, evidenced by white smoke.

Currently my timing is set at 1.37mm. After I got the timing close I knew the turbo injectors were gonna be different so since it was running rough I just kept advancing it little by little till it started running good. Then checked timing again. I don't use the cold start mechanism and the car starts flawlessly.

But now after seeing my efficiency over the past few tanks I think I might need to back it down to the 1.20 range or so. . .

Hopefully I don't get flamed too hard for timing by ear ::) ;D

Also: when I put the vnt on my plan was to set timing back to 1.05 and tweak from there.

Sent from my ThunderBolt using Tapatalk 2

Definitely sounds like you have too much timing on there... Are you using NA or TD injectors?  Either way, on an IDI anything over about 1.05 is too much!!

There's absolutely nothing wrong with timing by ear and I don't think anyone (or at least too many folks) on this board would flame you for it.  There IS something wrong with someone trying to "line up the marks" and thinking that they have somehow timed their engine correctly - doesn't work on a diesel.  Likewise you really need to have the correct tools for setting the cam timing, even if your "correct" cam lock is just a chunk of metal you stick in there with a few feeler gauges.  

Anyhow if you are running worn injectors on a worn injector pump using fuel that is different from what VW was expecting then there really isn't an appropriate "factory" timing spec available any more.  You start with the factory numbers and tweak from there.  Or just get it running without the factory timing and make adjustments.  "By ear" is about the only way you can time it - too many marbles, back off the timing.  Billowing white smoke and poor starting? Advance the timing...  Small increments make big changes.

If you really are running at 1.37mm on an IDI with a stock pump and injectors then you are way way way advanced.  I doubt you will find anyone on here with a TD pump and injectors that is running more advanced than 1.15mm.
Bryn

1994 Jetta - AHU M-TDI - Jezebel Jetta
2004 Jetta Wagon - 1.8T - Blitzen

Reply #97March 06, 2013, 06:04:05 pm

8v-of-fury

  • Guest
Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #97 on: March 06, 2013, 06:04:05 pm »
I once had somebody accuse ME of hill-billy tuning.. (timing by ear)..

I don't use an injector pump or cam shaft lock, simply because I do not have too. Also been accused of hill-billy tuning because of that.. lmao

Jive with me for a second, If the timing process were needed to be SO PERFECT then why is the crank shaft allowed to move freely during the process?? Why does it not have a lock? ;)

Reply #98March 06, 2013, 09:07:21 pm

wolf_walker

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1202
Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #98 on: March 06, 2013, 09:07:21 pm »
Didn't the TDI get a crank lock?  Little toothed dealy with a bolt?  I put a belt on a PD TDI a few years ago and remember envying the auto-tensioner and the locking tools.
Number of other small diesels I've come across have crank locking tools.  The IDI VW was pretty basic, even for it's era.  I attribute it to it's gasser heritage.  
I've got a design paper from way back when somewhere, I want to say it was on Roger Brown's site, is interesting reading.  
The early VW system is highly imperfect, the crank movement makes precise timing almost impossible.  It isn't hillbilly when the basic procedure is effed from the start.  
We get along as best we can, these motors are forgiving.  I always figured one of these days I'd have a locking mechanism machined to fit it the trans plug hole and fit into a receiving point
in the flywheel somehow or another.  It's pretty low on the to-do list though.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 09:10:19 pm by wolf_walker »
Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become ignorant.
Mentat Text Two

Reply #99March 06, 2013, 09:08:22 pm

Rising

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 385
Re: Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #99 on: March 06, 2013, 09:08:22 pm »
I'm using TD injectors and block with a n/a pump and no turbo. Im definitely with the school of thought that the timing has some room for adjustment. But I just don't know enough to not use a cam and IP lock haha.

However if I'm way off in my timing is it possible that I'm not measuring that correctly? I cranked it back till the numbers stopped and then forward till tdc and read the number.

But more to the point. Is there a sweet spot for gas mileage with pump timing? I know slightly advanced timing is used by a lot who are going for performance increases what about mileage?

Either way I'm going to back timing off a tad until it looses some marbles then see how mileage is affected.

Do you tune by ear with the car running or incrementally? I've been doing it incrementally...

Sent from my ThunderBolt using Tapatalk 2
'84 Rabbit Diesel- 1.6D Stock

Reply #100March 06, 2013, 09:11:16 pm

theman53

  • Global Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 7837
  • Personal Text
    Holmes County Ohio - North Central Ohio
Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #100 on: March 06, 2013, 09:11:16 pm »
I once had somebody accuse ME of hill-billy tuning.. (timing by ear)..

I don't use an injector pump or cam shaft lock, simply because I do not have too. Also been accused of hill-billy tuning because of that.. lmao

Jive with me for a second, If the timing process were needed to be SO PERFECT then why is the crank shaft allowed to move freely during the process?? Why does it not have a lock? ;)
The crank doesn't need locked as the cam and IP are holding it in place...although it would be nice if it had a lock to hold it perfect to help. Hillbilly :D

Reply #101March 06, 2013, 09:15:08 pm

wolf_walker

  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 1202
Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #101 on: March 06, 2013, 09:15:08 pm »
Like..

Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become ignorant.
Mentat Text Two

Reply #102March 06, 2013, 10:33:20 pm

CRSMP5

  • Guest
Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #102 on: March 06, 2013, 10:33:20 pm »
just do not be like bbob's old tdi's owners fix it man... use long 8mm bolt thru 1 of 4 holes as lock... one day bbob will post that pic..

like i try to tell lots of people.. even the pd.. got those tools too.. but mine uses 2 of 4 8mm bolt holes vs belt teeth..

the little titty between the 2 bolt holes, 7 o'clockish area, lower 8mm hole lines up with oil pan bolt head 99% of time.. others have crank snout issues..

the pd style tool remade to use that oil pan bolt = work on all vw 4 bangers since 75...

Reply #103March 06, 2013, 10:35:09 pm

8v-of-fury

  • Guest
Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #103 on: March 06, 2013, 10:35:09 pm »
The crank doesn't need locked as the cam and IP are holding it in place..


You never had the crank rotate when you tighten the belt then eh? lol

Reply #104March 06, 2013, 11:34:04 pm

ORCoaster

  • Moderator
  • Veteran

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 4383
  • Personal Text
    Restoring a Caddy as time and weather allows
Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #104 on: March 06, 2013, 11:34:04 pm »
The crank rotates so that techs can earn their keep.  If everyone could just lock and load the belt in place why would they need to come to the d'lar?  I would like to see something that goes in the tranny hole myself and stay away from the front end of the engine.  More accessible and would allow checking final tighten easier.  Maybe something that grabbed the teeth somehow. 

Just have to have some skill at it and that is again why we share our tips and pics.

 

S-PAutomotive.com