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Author Topic: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??  (Read 28418 times)

Reply #105March 07, 2013, 12:12:31 am

745 turbogreasel

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Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #105 on: March 07, 2013, 12:12:31 am »
I made one of these up in a jiffy.  sorry for the big pic, I didn't take it.



Reply #106March 07, 2013, 08:18:51 am

theman53

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Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #106 on: March 07, 2013, 08:18:51 am »
The crank doesn't need locked as the cam and IP are holding it in place..


You never had the crank rotate when you tighten the belt then eh? lol
Not since I know how to do it correct. The slack has to be in the tensioner side of the belt and then you are correct, it doesn't move.


Reply #107March 08, 2013, 12:25:14 am

wolf_walker

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Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #107 on: March 08, 2013, 12:25:14 am »
SOB's move all the time on me.  Books always say where the tension should be, small motors still seem to manage to move the crank somehow.
I check and re-check and haven't effed one up yet out of dozens, but it sure was nice on that TDI to know it was locked in and not worry about it.

Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become ignorant.
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Reply #108March 23, 2013, 10:46:24 pm

wolf_walker

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Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #108 on: March 23, 2013, 10:46:24 pm »
Speaking of which, several of the long T handle tools in this kit I bought ages ago are for locking the crank on small 4cyl diesels, that I presume
aren't sold in the US.  I think we got shafted for a long time with nothing but little VW's, much as I love em they are kinda cheap-o's in a lot of ways.


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« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 10:48:12 pm by wolf_walker »
Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become ignorant.
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Reply #109March 29, 2013, 01:27:45 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #109 on: March 29, 2013, 01:27:45 pm »
The crank does not move one iota when tensioning the belt unless you are doing the process wrong.  Plain and simple.  If it does move when you tension the belt, then your cam timing will be retarded when the engine is running, especially if your "solution" to the movement is to rotate the crank CCW back to TDC...  
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 03:02:20 pm by libbydiesel »
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Reply #110March 29, 2013, 03:39:43 pm

wolf_walker

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Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #110 on: March 29, 2013, 03:39:43 pm »
Ideals and exacts don't happen as often as we might wish.  A simple crank locking method, which others had and VW finally does now, removes that possible error from the equation.
I've done belts with no locks at all, no biggie(to me) but it isn't my preference, I've also seen people manage to screw up when EVERYTHING has a lock.
When I've had them move, which isn't often but it's happened, it wasn't when tensioning the belt at all, it was usually something dumb like leaving the car in gear and not setting
the e-brake or chocking the wheels and leaning on it.  I caught it when I double checked the timing mark like anyone should, but it wouldn't have happened if there was a crank lock. :)
I've had some that it took effort to move the crank, some that were presumably pretty tired that one could move the crank with two fingers on the gear after they sat and
bled down a bit.  It varies, mistakes are made, we devise systems to minimize them.

Guns ought not to need a safety either, people should keep there little sausage fingers off the switch till it's time, but they don't, so most of them do have a safety.
It's easy to say "if you do x right you don't need y" but it's ignoring reality. 
Just one of those things in my opinion...
And I am a fan of ideals and "right".

Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become ignorant.
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Reply #111March 29, 2013, 10:14:13 pm

libbydiesel

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Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #111 on: March 29, 2013, 10:14:13 pm »
A crank lock is a band-aid to remove a symptom but that band-aid does nothing to address the actual problem in your procedure and worse yet, can mask the problem.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 11:01:58 pm by libbydiesel »
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Reply #112March 29, 2013, 10:47:03 pm

wolf_walker

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Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #112 on: March 29, 2013, 10:47:03 pm »
A crank lock is a band-aid to remove a symptom but that band-aid does nothing to address the actual problem in your procedure and worse yet, can mask the problem.  If you don't have the car in neutral or up on jack stands, you can't do a timing belt correctly.  Heck, how can you even rotate to TDC in the first place?  If the crank moves when tensioning the belt, then you did not load the slack into the tensioner area like it is when running.  If you don't do that correctly, then a crank lock will just mask the issue and your cam timing will still be retarded when running.  When I tension the belt, the crank never moves at all.  I have confirmed this a multitude of times.  

Like I said, it isn't tensioning the belt when the crank moves, you are absolutely right on that.

And I get to TDC like most guys in a shop or driveway doing it alone, pull plug on trans, put in gear, roll car till at TDC, from drivers front fender so you can see the mark, unless
I'm lucky enough to have someone come watch for me or roll the crank with a ratchet, but that is the exception rather than the rule.
I've occasionally put a ratchet on the crank bolt and tried to lean over but it's annoying, maybe my arms are too short.  Been doing it this way fifteen years and I dunno how
many belts.  If you do this stuff for a living, it's easy to forget how things differ when one isn't as well equipped.  I've never used jack-stands for a t-belt, one under and a floor
jack on the pass side if doing water pump, but that's it.  I'm still skinny. :)

Ideals man, ideals.  Sometimes a band-aid is a good thing.  VW and others seem to think so too.

I enjoyed the crank locking tool being present on that TDI I did a few years ago, didn't have to roll the car, and was able to lock it and forget about it.   
Didn't enjoy taking so much *** off to get to the belt, but hey.

Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become ignorant.
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Reply #113March 30, 2013, 09:19:40 am

TylerDurden

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Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #113 on: March 30, 2013, 09:19:40 am »
Back to the OP/OT...

I installed a 1V engine into my 85/86 TD (after replacing its HG). IP from an 89NA getting 50mpg. First couple of tanks netted 35mpg highway. (Excessive nailing at all but WOT on highway.) Timing set to 1mm.

Compression is good, Lifters are noisy. IP internal pressure not known yet.

Backed off timing to .88mm, 38mpg but still got excessive nailing.

Popped the injectors: break-pressures varied widely and two sprayed streams. Swapped in the injectors from the original engine: all spray well, break pressures ~145bar. Timing at .84mm... Now getting 42-44mpg and a hint of nailing.


Backed off timing to .81mm yesterday... smooth running and no nailing. I'll report back with mpg after a couple of tanks.

(Next operation will be lifters or IP pressures, but will wait to see what the effect the timing change makes.)

Reply #114March 30, 2013, 12:10:33 pm

wolf_walker

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Re: What's the worst fuel milage you can get??
« Reply #114 on: March 30, 2013, 12:10:33 pm »
Back to the OP/OT...

I installed a 1V engine into my 85/86 TD (after replacing its HG). IP from an 89NA getting 50mpg. First couple of tanks netted 35mpg highway. (Excessive nailing at all but WOT on highway.) Timing set to 1mm.

Compression is good, Lifters are noisy. IP internal pressure not known yet.

Backed off timing to .88mm, 38mpg but still got excessive nailing.

Popped the injectors: break-pressures varied widely and two sprayed streams. Swapped in the injectors from the original engine: all spray well, break pressures ~145bar. Timing at .84mm... Now getting 42-44mpg and a hint of nailing.


Backed off timing to .81mm yesterday... smooth running and no nailing. I'll report back with mpg after a couple of tanks.

(Next operation will be lifters or IP pressures, but will wait to see what the effect the timing change makes.)

Pretty much a text book process.  Advance it till it nails as much as you can tolerate and enjoy.
The lifters will help, as they are often worn and lazy, pump pressure might, don't go crazy with it. 
Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become ignorant.
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Reply #115June 17, 2014, 04:04:51 am

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« Reply #115 on: June 17, 2014, 04:04:51 am »
T3 Bus with 1.6TD with 10mm pump head and 3mm camplate lift, got little under 30mpg, but that was not really adjusted at all, and the smoke was so bad that people driving behind had no chance to identify the car, could only see 2 red lights... now i'm getting around 40.

Worst i've had was 220hp G60 passat, or 190whp G60 Golf.
Both got 17mpg at worst. But i miss the power sometimes..

T3 Syncro 2.1 FF 112hp burned about 30 liters in 15minutes, but that was only once...

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-89 Caravelle Coach 1.6TD (too be holset powered) Daily driver
-80 Golf 1.6D

 

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