IP with 11mm and shimmed gov..problems

[darrenjlobb]

Hm.. only thing i can think of, is that im just used to more power.. and because im running more boost, need alot more fuel to notice if its underfueling.... theres deffo more fuel there at 2500-3500, you can feel it pull more, but after that, it tails off really badly...

[anto]

I dont see why we need the control collar to travel further on the plunger when the stroke length of the 11mm plunger remains the same as the stroke length of the 9mm plunger. Same stroke length as we are using the same camplate.
Why is it that for a bigger head we need the control collar to move further?
I looked at the transit lever and it has the same pivot point and length of pin as the 306/406 lever so it shouldnt make a difference?
Snakemaster am i missing something obvious as to why we need more travel of the control collar for the bigger head?
Is it something that bosch done on purpose to limit how much fuel went in?

Darren is it possible you are getting the same pull high in the revs but that you are getting more down low and it is making it feel like it is tailing off?

[darrenjlobb]

Im not saying the 11mm pumps levers do move it more.. just an idea...

It just seems that i cant get as much fuel from the 11mm setup as i could from the old 9mm setup, which dosnt make alot of sence..

I just changed the

Pump head / plunger

And also changed the return springs/shims and control color, and the little shim that sits between plunger and camplate all from the 11mm donor pump, i didnt chek to see if the little shim was the same size, as i belive this can effect things...

[anto]

Just by eye its the same size, but due to how finely adjusted these are doing it by eye may not be enough.

Snakemaster said the transit lever moved it more but on seeing one with a 406 lever the pivot points etc look identical.
So if the transit lever works the 11mm head ok in a transit pump then in theory it should work ok for the peugeot pump?

Could the "tailing off" be in your head darren?
I have to say mine feels the same but unsure whether its the combination of the gt15 and extra fuel from 11m head that makes it feel like it tails off?

What internal pressure regulator valve are you using?
Could it be possible you arent advancing correctly high up the revs?

[darrenjlobb]

Hm, well if the plugers are identical, and control levers the same, i cant see it would make any odds...

Im deffo not imagining it, it dosnt even have enough fuel anymore to maintain high boost, its leaning it out alot.... the max fuel screw wont physiaclly screw in anymore... its about half i, and it goes tight...

Am i not right in saying, that as everythign else is the same, surly it should now, be injecting 2mms extra worth of fuel per stroke...dosnt make sence...

[dts67]

There is more travel in the transit levers I'm sure and the camplate is as agressive if not more than the afn one I've got, maybe there is room for more travel for more fuel even on standard pump?

[anto]

There is more travel in the transit levers I'm sure and the camplate is as agressive if not more than the afn one I've got, maybe there is room for more travel for more fuel even on standard pump?

Con the camplate off a transit is definitely more aggressive, but the levers have the same pivot point and the same length of pin from what i can see.
If there is a difference its less than 0.25mm cos i cant see it with my eye. Perhaps  thats enough of a difference.
Il get pics tonight....

[snakemaster]

pumps can be funny things to set up , some transit levers will have more travel than 306/405 ones , i set up a pump for my 1.6td mk2 golf idi , gov mod , adv mod , lda mod , and set up the pump timming , FMI and this ran 18psi and 140hp ish , it would eat mk2 gti 8v no prob , i was happy with the power , had to turn down the max fuel screw as she kiked out a lot of black smoke , i did put pug 306 injectors in her to ,
you may be beter to start with a fresh pump and do one mod at a time and if it dont work just put it back to how it was , there is a lot of factors to make a good pump .

[anto]

I have added each mod individually from a rebuilt pump.
Ending now with my 11mm head mod.

Con i did some measurements in a scrap pump with both levers and both were the same as far as i could tell.
Maybe as snakemaster says there are other longer levers?

Darren i can manage smoke on boost, maybe just becasue your turbo is moving so much air that even the 11mm head cant move enough fuel, although that seems unlikely given some of the turbos the likes some are using on here.

[darrenjlobb]

Hm, im sure i should be able to smoke on boost, it runs 26psi....Surly it can push out more fuel than it is :S

[anto]

It can push out more but then you've the problem of having lots of off boost smoke.
I now what you mean though.
How have you set it up?

At the minute ive the pin set for as much on boost as possible.
I then have the starwheel as far up as i can get it so that it take more boost to push the pin down in the hope that i can add more max fuel without smoking like a train off boost.

[darrenjlobb]

Well my starwheel si fairly low, to make sure it deffo opens the whole way on boost to get as much fuel as possible from  it, and the top screw is right up, so that wen its off boost, its restricting fueling as much as it can..

But the max fuel is wound in as far as it will go, seems to just get stuck half in, and thats it, as much fuel as i seem to be able to run with

[anto]

Sounds odd, i could create one hell of a smokescreen out of mine if i wantet to.
Im the same as con the max fuel screw is practically hanging out of the pump!
Ive the top screw as far up as possible as well for the reason you mention.
Never worry about getting full travel it wont be a problem.
Colour the pin in with marker, wind the starwheel up as far as it goes, take it for a drive, take out pin and you should see where the pin has marked the boost pin.
I might take a spare boos tpin now and regrind it, its something i havent done.

[darrenjlobb]

See this is where something ive done must be wrong..

My max fuel is NOT hanging in on the last thread... its half way in, in its normal position.... Why the hell is this :S

[anto]

HHave you done anything different to me and con?

i have;

gov mod - main spring shimmed
im using the 11mm transit internal pressure regulator giving 600-625ml flow at idle in 90secs
11mm head
11mm plunger
11mm control collar
11mm return springs
11mm shim for foot of plunger
9mm camplate
9mm delivery valves
1mm spacer for advance cover with shim added for spring rate