Problems starting.... - IDI Engine - VWDiesel.net The IDI, TDI, and mTDI source.

• Problems starting.... by brandon5 on 10 Sep, 2009 19:11
• Hello this is my first post on this forum so id like to say hi to everyone.
  
  First of all, my car is a mk2 92 diesel golf with a turbo and intercooler.
  
  2 days ago i was starting my car on a warmish morning and it cranked for a good 20 seconds before killing the battery. So i got my friend to jump it and i started up fine. Drove it to school and back then drove it around to charge up the battery and then went to start it for work and it cranked till it died. we jumped it again and it was fine. it started fine at work then coming home i was in 3rd gear goin about 50 when it stopped running. i jumped it... it started... then driving home it did it again and it wont start for anything. i had to tow it home. the only thing i noticed is that i cannot smell fuel when it cranks... so im thinking mayyybe the injector pump?? im completely new to diesels so i have no clue what to do.
  
  Sorry for the long post, if anyone has any ideas i would really like to hear them. i have used the search but everything i come up with is a different issue.
  
  Thanks for your time.
  
  Brandon
• #1 by maxfax on 10 Sep, 2009 19:22
• Kinda sounds like an issue with the shut off solenoid on the pump..  It's connected to the only wire going to the pump..  Make sure it's tight, ans that you are getting 12v to it with the key in both the start and run position..  It's possible that you may have a wiring gremlin somewhere, a faulty ignition switch, or even an ailing solenoid as well..
• #2 by brandon5 on 10 Sep, 2009 19:35
• Thanks for the reply. Ill check that tomorrow and see what happens. I just dont wanna replace something and have it not be the problem because money is an issue.
• #3 by burn_your_money on 10 Sep, 2009 19:38
• Sounds like your glowplug relay is crapping out to me. Check for 12V at the stop solenoid while you are cranking the engine over. You can save your battery during this test by removing the "exciter" wire going to the solenoid on the starter.
• #4 by brandon5 on 10 Sep, 2009 19:43
• I thought maybe it might be related to plugs to but i wasn't sure cause i couldn't smell fuel. But ill remember that too.
• #5 by Baron VonZeppelin on 10 Sep, 2009 19:45
• Also sounds like possibly an alternator not charging properly, or dis-charging.
  But like they have said, could be anything. You need to check everything.
  
  You have to have strong battery voltage and amperage to crank 23:1 compression ratio with 400-500 psi per cylinder.
  
  More than likely when it died at 50, the battery had discharged enough to let the fuel solenoid de-energize. Or you just about are out of fuel.
  
  Almost takes pure luck to diagnose anything like this over the internet.
  Or about 20-30 posts/reposts.
  The next time it will crank over but not start, stop cranking it and roll crank it in 2nd gear - with keyswitch in the Run/On position, of course.
  If it cranks and runs, your Inj Pump and fuel system are fine.
  
  
• #6 by brandon5 on 10 Sep, 2009 19:49
• It very well could be anything. Thats why i thought id post it up. It is hard to figure it out but i want some more ideas. I have tried starting it with rolling and it was a fail. i just think its something to do with fueling cause last time i tried to start it the battery was pretty charged up.
  
  Edit: i have a half tank of fuel so its not that. but what would happen if the fuel solenoid de-energized?
• #7 by burn_your_money on 10 Sep, 2009 19:59
• Quote from: brandon5 on 10 Sep, 2009 19:49

  
   but what would happen if the fuel solenoid de-energized?
  

  Your car would either turn off, or not start.
  
  When I mentioned the glow plug relay I was not referring to the glowplugs. The stop solenoid is controlled through the glow plug relay.
  
  Where in Canada are you?
• #8 by brandon5 on 10 Sep, 2009 20:01
• I live in Ontario. In the kw area. im still trying to figure everything out in this car. Some things i just cant put my finger on... like this. And im not takin it to a mechanic.
• #9 by jtanguay on 10 Sep, 2009 20:56
• Quote from: brandon5 on 10 Sep, 2009 20:01

  I live in Ontario. In the kw area. im still trying to figure everything out in this car. Some things i just cant put my finger on... like this. And im not takin it to a mechanic.
  

  
  doing the work yourself is way cheaper (if you can fix it) and a great learning experience. first things first.  you need to make sure that your alternator is charging your battery properly, and feeding the stop solenoid.  a cheap voltage gauge is a pretty good indicator of charging.  it should read about 13-14 volts (take the reading right from the alternator).  if this checks out, onto the next.
  
  battery.  theres a slight posibility of a damaged or maybe even dead cell in the battery? this will make it really weak, to the point where it would stall a gasser. i doubt thats the problem, but you never know.  don't forget to clean all the battery contacts too for good measure.  inspect the grounds too.
  
  if all of the above check out, then just wire up 12v to the solenoid straight from the battery and drive it like that and see if the problem persists (you'll need to pop the hood to stop the engine).  if that fixes the problem, then you have some wonky wiring.  if it doesnt fix the problem, then you'll most likely need to replace the solenoid.
• #10 by Jay on 11 Sep, 2009 06:06
• While cranking check for air in the clear fuel line going into the IP! Also try getting towed up to about 20mph while in 2nd, ign on and drop the clutch    If it still doesn't work I guess it's time to check the solenoid 
  
  24 hours (exactly!) after getting my GTD it kept loosing all power on the motorway (I was doing 70-80mph), eventually it gave up and I couldn't restart it and knowing nothing about derv's I called out a mechanic the next day after asking on some forums and still not getting her running he eventually towed me while in 2nd with the ign on and dropping the clutch which got her started! It was his last ditch attempt before he gave up too lol
  
  It was air in the fuel line and quite a lot of it, certainly enough to stop the IP from bleeding the air which they do on these systems.
  I occasionally had loss of power on the motor way 
  
  I still need to take her on a long run on the motor way to see if she still does loose power after the work I've done on her recently.
• #11 by brandon5 on 12 Sep, 2009 16:09
• So i started messing around with all the wires to see if anything was loose. And it seemed the injector pump wire was loose. So i started it after that and it started... I still had to jump it but it still started. I drove it to Canadian tire and when i tried to start it the battery was completely dead. I still think its loosing power. i tested the battery and alt and there both good. Any ideas? stuck relay?
  
  Thanks for the help
• #12 by maxfax on 12 Sep, 2009 16:58
• You say the battery and alt tested good..  Does it still crank over like it has a dead battery even though the battery has a full charge?   If so:
  
  Check your battery cables and connections (especially the ground!)  Try a voltage drop test to be absolutely sure.. Here's a how to on that if you are unfamiliar..
  
  http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm
  
  If everything passes the voltage drop test chances are your starter is ailing.... A simple test dor whather the starter is drawing too much amperage woudl be to connect the volt meter to the battery, crank it for about 10 seconds while watching the voltage.. It should not drop below about 9 volts...
• #13 by Rabbit TD on 12 Sep, 2009 17:12
• Quote from: burn_your_money on 10 Sep, 2009 19:38

  Sounds like your glowplug relay is crapping out to me. Check for 12V at the stop solenoid while you are cranking the engine over. You can save your battery during this test by removing the "exciter" wire going to the solenoid on the starter.
  

  But he said it shut off once doing 50 mph, I wouldn't think that would be plug related.  I kind of suspect the solenoid or a restricted fuel filter but I'm having strange things happen too lately that don't make sense to me either.  My car starts slow now even when warm just from replacing the plugs, even when they are not being powered and the engine warm.  Could any of these glow plug issues we've been seeing have anything to do with a fuel additive for Winter or Summer used from the oil companies be causing any of these issues.  Hell it isn't even cold yet though.
• #14 by Rabbit TD on 12 Sep, 2009 19:36
• Quote from: Rabbit TD on 12 Sep, 2009 17:12

  Quote from: burn_your_money on 10 Sep, 2009 19:38

  Sounds like your glowplug relay is crapping out to me. Check for 12V at the stop solenoid while you are cranking the engine over. You can save your battery during this test by removing the "exciter" wire going to the solenoid on the starter.
  

  But he said it shut off once doing 50 mph, I wouldn't think that would be plug related.  I kind of suspect the solenoid or a restricted fuel filter but I'm having strange things happen too lately that don't make sense to me either.  My car starts slow now even when warm just from replacing the plugs, even when they are not being powered and the engine warm.  Could any of these glow plug issues we've been seeing have anything to do with a fuel additive for Winter or Summer used from the oil companies be causing any of these issues.  Hell it isn't even cold yet though.
  

    I want to add something to what I just posted.  If the fuel solenoid gets it's power through the G/P relay then it could indeed be the relay,  I thought they were were like the MK-1's.  But a short wire from the solenoid is easy to do.  If it starts then it's between the solenoid back to the relay.  If it doesn't make much difference it's probably the solenoid.  You can take the spring and plunger out to test that too.