appreciable
How does increasing the torque on the injectors have any appreciable effect on the opening pressures?
(hagar) another little "INJECTION" --of good old DIY ---know how. -- setting breaking pressure by hand --no tester nothing.---will do in a pinch. This post is about hagars experience ( Saga ) with Rabbit VW diesels.---did I adjust injectors by hand ?------- yes many.----I double tested later in PRO tester --it works and that is gospel. Both long and short spring Injectors use same pitch thread on barrels. --compress spring by 0,05mm and pressure increases 5 bar. (my Bentley page 23) --one turn on barrel is about 60 thou US inch. My Amerikan friends ---please go Metric --it pay's. SEE ? apple pie.
(Fatmobile) Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:29 pm Post subject: metric -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looks like .05mm = .001968504 inches. About 2 thousandths. 5 bar per .001968504 inches so if you wanted 135 bar: 135/5=27 27x.001968504=.053149608 So smashing the spring .053 inches will get you 135 bar. Each full turn equals .06" (.06/.001968504)x5= 152.3999951 bar (.06" (one turn) divided by .001968504 (distance moved to equal 5 bar) = 30.47999902)x 5 bar. So one turn equals 152 bar. 9/10ths of a turn gets you about 135 bar. That took me awhile so select, Ctrl C. I'd hate to lose it all when I go to post it.
If you are torquing the injectors into the head with a 27mm deep socket, the torque value should have no effect on leaking (causing or eliminating). Having said that, go by the Bentley spec when you install into the head (70nM or 52 ft-lbs), and be sure to use new heat shields each time. Anti-seize is also a good idea.I simply suggested that you remove your injectors, put the heads into a vice, and torque the bases (bodies) to the head up to the value of 58-60 ft-lbs. I too had lapped the crap out of injector bodies. I was certain they were good, but I kept getting small leaks, and some large leaks when torqued to 52 ft-lbs. In the end, I followed Andrew's suggestions, and torqued them a bit more (to like 55-60 ft-lbs). I haven't had a leak yet. The only problem with this trick, is that you need to calibrate the injectors for this extra torque. Increasing the torque on the bodies will increase the breaking (pop) pressure of the injector. I don't think it's more than about 10 psi, but it could affect performance (MPG), as it will effectively retard you injection timing a touch.
Quote from: burn_your_money on July 24, 2009, 12:50:23 pmQuote from: Doakster on July 24, 2009, 10:42:06 amAlright, what is the torque suppose to be when you install the complete injector into the head?? Just got off the phone with them and they are telling me bosch recommends 31 or 35 i believe. I was going to 51ft-lbs off my bentley manual, but I could be an idiot and not read it right. I assume the 51 ft-lbs is when you are resembling the injector halves themselve. What they are getting at is that I'm tweeking the injector too much. 31 or 35 is way too low. I'm going by memory but the injectors as a whole going into the head is 55 ft-lbs. I've heard 51 a lot as well so that might be right. Possibly a variance in the bentleys.If they are only torquing the injectors to 31-35 at the shop then that'll be more prone to leaks. Do it to 58 ft-lbsAt the shop when they are assembling the injectors they are torquing the halves together at around 50-55ftlbs, i don't remember the exact number they stated, but they went off the bosch spec. When I install them in the car, on the head I am torqueing them to 51ft-lbsI just looked at my bently manual again. The specs are: Injector halves: 51ftlbsInjector into heads: 51ftlbsThe shop is saying that they contacted bosch directly and bosch stated they are to be torqued to 31ftlbs into the head. They are thinking that the 51ftlbs may have tweeked the halves a little bit to cause the leaking, they also agree that retorqueing to 31f lbs may not fix it. I was simply going off my bently manual, but I'm going to try loosening and retorquing to 31ftlbs and see what happens.
Quote from: Doakster on July 24, 2009, 10:42:06 amAlright, what is the torque suppose to be when you install the complete injector into the head?? Just got off the phone with them and they are telling me bosch recommends 31 or 35 i believe. I was going to 51ft-lbs off my bentley manual, but I could be an idiot and not read it right. I assume the 51 ft-lbs is when you are resembling the injector halves themselve. What they are getting at is that I'm tweeking the injector too much. 31 or 35 is way too low. I'm going by memory but the injectors as a whole going into the head is 55 ft-lbs. I've heard 51 a lot as well so that might be right. Possibly a variance in the bentleys.If they are only torquing the injectors to 31-35 at the shop then that'll be more prone to leaks. Do it to 58 ft-lbs
Alright, what is the torque suppose to be when you install the complete injector into the head?? Just got off the phone with them and they are telling me bosch recommends 31 or 35 i believe. I was going to 51ft-lbs off my bentley manual, but I could be an idiot and not read it right. I assume the 51 ft-lbs is when you are resembling the injector halves themselve. What they are getting at is that I'm tweeking the injector too much.
Both long and short spring Injectors use same pitch thread on barrels. --compress spring by 0,05mm and pressure increases 5 bar. (my Bentley page 23) --one turn on barrel is about 60 thou US inch.
Just pulled the injectors again, retorqued in the heads to 31ft-lbs just to see what it would do, big surprise they still leak.I'm going to call the shop tomorrow and discuss torquing the bodies to 55-60ft-lbs, I'll probably just do it anyway, unfortunately I don't have a vise where i am right now, I'll have to get creative. Another question, I notice that the nozzles actually have a spot where they touched the copper crush washers, I assume this is normal, they naturally touch at the smaller diameter hole in the washer
i don't know if this will help anyone , but on injectors that i've had trouble sealing after rebuilding , i've lapped the matting surfaces to each other using a bit of valve lapping compound .
Quote from: rabbitman on July 24, 2009, 08:25:42 pmBoth long and short spring Injectors use same pitch thread on barrels. --compress spring by 0,05mm and pressure increases 5 bar. (my Bentley page 23) --one turn on barrel is about 60 thou US inch. The logic behind this is flawed though. In order for the injector to seal, all the finely machined/lapped pieces inside the injector need to be compressed against each other. The torque value is how tightly they are being held together. You are not going to compress that metal enough to significantly change the opening pressure. You will strip the injector bodies long before you do.