Head Swap, No Start, Need HELP

[SolarSteve]

I swapped the broken head of of my 1991 Jetta 1.6 N/A with the head of of a 1990 Golf 1.6 N/A.  The installation of the head onto the block was not as smooth as I would have liked, but not terrible.  The gasket slipped a little and I manage to line eveything up with the head resting on the gasket/block.

I reinstalled everything, checked the timing and rolled the motor over by hand more than 2 times.  It rolled easily with out binding.

I dumped the oil and refilled, but left the filter on because I had just changed the oil the day before I realized I had to pull the head.  Upon adding I noticed a small valve cover leak, that I tightened but a small leak may remain right now, nothing major.

When I tried to start it, I cranked a lot, knowing that the lines and injectors were empty and needing to purge the air.  I eventually cracked a line and started to get some fuel as well as seeing fuel flowing in the return tube where I have a section of clear tubing.

It never even popped.  I am also getting some smoke from somewhere under the intake/exhaust mainfolds.

After scratching my head I checked the oil and there was no oil on the stick and a couple of tiny drops of coolant.  I had already added 1 gallon of oil and then added some more and cranked some more, but the stick is still dry.

I am assuming that I am somehow pumping my oil into the coolant.  I realize this requires removing the head again, but why wouldn't it start?

I have not check the compression yet as I don't have a comp tester.  Also, I installed the injectors out of the spare motor which the head came from because they looked to be in very good shape.  No I didn't pop test them...

Any help would really be appriciated.

[maxfax]

Hmm generally I've been able to just hold the accelerator to the floor, crank, and they start...  But there have been those contemptable SOBS...

Had your spare motor sat around a while???  Possibly the injectors are sticking or have some crap in them??
You checked fuel connections, glowplugs and all that crap?

THe oil thing is kind of interesting though...     that is ALOT of oil for just cranking...  It woudl have to be one heck of a leak to the coolant I woudl think...   Maybe some is going into the cylinder???

[rabbitman]

Oil getting in the cylinders would make sense considering how much you've lost but it wouldn't take very much oil to make the engine lock up.

Maybe it you have the front of the car up real high then the oil wouldn't show on the stick

[burn_your_money]

Are you sure you had the drain plug in when you added the oil? I know I've added new oil before draining the old before

Did you have any smoke out the exhaust?

I would swap in the other injectors since you know they were working.

[SolarSteve]

I'm certain the drain plug is installed.  There is not oil all over the floor.  I think I will install my old injectors because I know they work.

I was getting light wispy smoke from under the manifolds.  The exhaust manifold on the spare head had a lead like washer/gasket that mates to the down pipe, where as my old one just had a steel one. I don't know if maybe it is smoking and its coming out of the manifold downpipe connection if it is not sealing right.

If I am pumping the oil into the cylinders, I would think oil would be running out the tail pipe, I mean I lost atleast 1 gallon.  If it is going into the coolant, what would be the best way to find out?

I really don't want to, but I think I am going to have to pull the head again.  Can I re-use the bolts or once they have been torqued thats it?  When you guys remove/install heads do you leave the intake/exhaust manifolds on or off?  It's definately heavier and hard to install with them on, but I figured it would be very hard to install them after the head is on.

Thanks for the help.

[burn_your_money]

Oil is lighter then coolant so it'l be floating on top of your resevoir.

The bolts are 1 time use unfortunatly. I leave both manifolds on unless I am doing work to the head.

Put the old injectors in and see what happens.

Once you topped up the oil did it all stay where it was suppose to?

[SolarSteve]

I just took another look under the hood.  I forgot to hook up the main wire to the glow plugs, but I would have thought it still would have started without them.  It kind of a good thing that it didn't start because I definately have the 2 fluids mixing.  I checked the dipstick just now and there is water on the bottom of the stick and oil above that, so I have to pull the head.

If I do indeed have oil in the coolant, what do I need to do to clean it out?  Drain, R2 the head, fill, run, and drain and re-fill?

I usually order my head gasket and bolts from Parts Place and I won't be able to place the order until Monday.  So tomorrow I will start to remove the head.  When I reinstall I am going to use my onld injectors, they are only 1 year old/14,000 miles and I know they were working before.  I will also remeber to hook up the main glow plug wire.

Is there any trick to getting the head on with the manifolds connected beside just muscling it in?  I tried the 8" long 3/8" dowles once but they would not allow it to go on the way I had to tip the head to clear the exhaust manifold.  I was thinking of dropping 2 bolts through the head and then try to lower the head onto the block using the 2 bolts as guides.

Thanks so far for the help, any other help as always is appriciated.

[theman53]

If you buy studs you will have an alignment with those
What I did and still have is some old head bolts that I used a chop saw and cut the heads off. Then I used a grinder to bevel the cut and to put a line for a screwdriver to unscrew them and a little cut in the threads of one that I use as a thread chaser to get any crud out of the block holes. You usually can get to mine the way I cut them, but if need be a magnet works well since the head is aluminum. I don't have a pic, but can if you need it, just use your old head bolts that are in you engine now. "EDIT" for alignment not reuse.

[Vincent Waldon]

Here's a pic of what theman53 is talking about... 1" sections of your old headbolts with a flat cut in them for a screwdriver make great alignment pins for reinstalling the head:



That's a gasser engine in the picture, but a vdub is a vdub.  Once the head is in place you use a screwdriver to loosen them and a magnet to remove 'em... easy peasy.

[92EcoDiesel Jetta]

Do you think you damaged the head gasket? I'd suggest get the head pressure tested before putting in a new head gasket and new head bolts. It'd really suck to have the same thing happen again.

[SolarSteve]

I like the head bolt/stud idea and I will use it.

When you say have the head pressure tested, what exactly do you mean and how do I perform it.  There is a possibility that I damaged the gasket on installation but I don't know for sure that is not the head.

When I had the spare head (the one that is not on the engine) off of the spare motor, I noticed it looked sort of black inside the water passageway on the front of the head.  I couldn't tell for sure if it was oil due to a previous blown gasket or just nastiness that accures inside of the head.

The guy I bought the motor from told me that it was a running motor, but I guess that doesn't really mean anything until I hear it run.

[SolarSteve]

Here's a pic of what theman53 is talking about... 1" sections of your old headbolts with a flat cut in them for a screwdriver make great alignment pins for reinstalling the head:



That's a gasser engine in the picture, but a vdub is a vdub.  Once the head is in place you use a screwdriver to loosen them and a magnet to remove 'em... easy peasy.

I pulled the head off today.  I am thinking I may have jumped the gun.  I completely drained the coolant, to include removing the thermostat and there wasn't any oil in the coolant.  I drained the oil and there was no coolant in the oil.  I can't understand the loss of oil.  When I checked the stick I did see a few tiny drops of coolant but I guess I would see that after R2'ing the head.  Not installing the main wire to the glow plugs is what I am presuming caused my no-start.  I guess if I hooked up the wire and tried again and it started, I could have shut it down a minute later and checked the stick to see if it was milky to determine if I was getting coolant in the oil.

Anyway, the head is already off.  Made a set (4) of guide studs like you suggested and tommorow or the next day I will begin the reinstallation.  I also went with a 3 notch gasket instead of the 2 just in case it was a sealing problem with the head, maybe the thicker gasket would help.

Thanks for the help

[theman53]

It will start worse if you need a 2 notch and you get a 3. The 3 notch won't seal any better than a 2 anyway. It is all about clean flat surfaces for sealing and piston protrusion for gasket thicknesses.

[maxfax]

X2, go with the gasket it needs..   IF you really want something to help with sealing..   I know they say to install these gaskets dry, but Hylomar sealer works wonders on these...

[theman53]

Also this is how I do mine for alignment. The cut in the threads on the one works to chase the dirty oil and gunk out.