No start issue...

[boosted_diesel_84]

this all started a few weeks ago as an intermittent problem, just every once in a while it would go to start and boom, nothing, let it sit for a bit and it would start just fine, then 1 day it just wouldnt start at all, and thats where thats at, should i have another ground on top of the one from trans mount to body? i put just a temporary one on and it didnt change anything,granted it wasnt fastened to anything, just sitting on clean surface, am i getting a good enough ground from the trunk latch bracket? should i move it to the bumper mount bolt instead?

[boosted_diesel_84]

k, i just put my jumper cables from starter body to neg. on battery had to use a ground strap because jumper cables were too short to reach, and still nothing, i moved the jumper cable to a bell housing bolt and no change, just click 2-3 times, then nothing after. this is soooo frustrating. i really appreciate everyones help on this, also my idiot lights even act funny when the key is just on, not all of them are coming on, like they usually do, then other times they do come on, also the wire from ignition to starter has no power when key is in start position

[clbanman]

If you pull your battery out of the trunk and put it near the front corner of your car and use the booster cables, does it work normally?   I would be very suspicious of running a ground through a latch bracket as you probably have 2 or 3 areas where you could have connection problems.

[boosted_diesel_84]

correct, if  the battery is located up front, using jumper cables, the car will crank,

i was curious about that ground also, but its been working for the last 6 months all thru winter with no problems, y now? i even cleaned the ground up. i am not getting any power to the starter from the ignition. but it will not crank if i use a screw driver to jumper it, just click 2-3 times, then have a small arc with no clicking or cranking, then i have to let it sit for a while come back, will click 2-3 times again, then nothing, same thing every time.

[arb]

I'd suggest one more test.  Hook the negative jumper cable back up from the negative of the battery to the starter body.  Then try using the screwdriver to jumper the starter.

Regardless, put the battery back up front.

Whether it's the power side or the ground side or both, the present routing is not allowing enough current to flow.  Why now?  Maybe your battery is slightly worse off than before.  Maybe your ignition switch is slightly more worn.  Maybe you have a little more corrosion in the ground or power paths.  Regardless, VW put the battery by the starter and glow plugs for a very good reason.  In fact in the diesel vanagons they even moved from its gas vanagon location under the passenger seat to the passenger side of the engine compartment just for that reason. 

110% agreement. Move it, try these tests.  The only diesel I know of with the battery _not_ near the starter was the first new car I ever had - a 1985 Diesel Escort. It had a really BIG battery that could not be placed up front, so Ford put it behind a pannel in the trunk area and used a really large set of cables to get the amps to the starter. They also used a toaster to heat the intake air - part of the reason for this addition to my Caravan 1.6 before winter comes again :-P

[boosted_diesel_84]

I'd suggest one more test.  Hook the negative jumper cable back up from the negative of the battery to the starter body.  Then try using the screwdriver to jumper the starter.

Regardless, put the battery back up front.

Whether it's the power side or the ground side or both, the present routing is not allowing enough current to flow.  Why now?  Maybe your battery is slightly worse off than before.  Maybe your ignition switch is slightly more worn.  Maybe you have a little more corrosion in the ground or power paths.  Regardless, VW put the battery by the starter and glow plugs for a very good reason.  In fact in the diesel vanagons they even moved from its gas vanagon location under the passenger seat to the passenger side of the engine compartment just for that reason.  

I will try this, but i just put a new battery and new ignition switch in last week, but none of this explains y i have no power going from ignition to starter, all my gauges go dead while in start position, and never did before this issue

[Vincent Waldon]

its been working for the last 6 months all thru winter with no problems, y now?

Your car used to work... it stopped working.  Something decided to quit working, even though it was working before.  Why now?  Because it did!!

The reason we've been pretty methodical about the approach to troubleshooting this is that unlike a broken connecting rod no one can see where the electrons have decided to stop.  So, we have to take it one step at a time... and this means not ruling stuff out just 'cause it used to work before.

Keep at it.. you'll get it... and an open mind as to what it could be is important.

but it will not crank if i use a screw driver to jumper it, just click 2-3 times

This pretty much proves that your relocation kit is not working properly any longer, and if you move the battery back to the front and can get it to start with a screwdriver you will have confirmed this to be the case.

With that out of the way (one way of the other), you can then investigate why there seems to be no power at the ignition terminal... not uncommon for two things to decide to head south together.  Or, the nature of the reloc kit also contributed to the way power is supplied to the ignition circuit.. always hard to tell exactly what's going on over the Internet !

[Zulfiqar]

Ive seen this problem with W210 mercedes diesels having batteries under the rear seat - what you need is to put a dedicated ground cable directly hooked to the trans or starter - mercs use it on the trans end housing and if you anything else like hooking it to the body then body to trans or starter - you will get insane amounts of current loss

diesel starters especially BOSCH ones are extremely hungry for amps when it comes to starting

Best put it back under the bonnet - you will also save your cars body from a lot of corossion

[theman53]

after seeing the rust and corrosion in the floor of my project that is why I first posted about your summit kit. They said it was only a 3ft ground so I knew that wasn't long enough to reach the starter. If I were you and the tests confirm that a battery directly connected to the starter makes it work then I would get a long piece of 2/0 to run from front to back if you still want to keep it there. I used the 2/0 and NEVER had battery issues. Good luck, and BTW where in Ohio are you?

[boosted_diesel_84]

but, none of this explains y i dont have any power going from ignition to starter, but, i will try better grounds, andi am in Tiffin, Ohio

[Zulfiqar]

check the ignition switch - its known to go bad specially in the start position, the factory starting wiring is like this

juice jug (battery) - starting switch key - starter solenoid terminal 50 - solenoid coil - ground

that terminal 50 sucks juice - about 40 amps of it all wired through long wires and two tiny contacts in the switch - which wears it down after a few million starting cycles - thats why I have put a bosch 70 amp relay in the starting circuit under the bonnet.

[boosted_diesel_84]

check the ignition switch - its known to go bad specially in the start position, the factory starting wiring is like this

juice jug (battery) - starting switch key - starter solenoid terminal 50 - solenoid coil - ground

that terminal 50 sucks juice - about 40 amps of it all wired through long wires and two tiny contacts in the switch - which wears it down after a few million starting cycles - thats why I have put a bosch 70 amp relay in the starting circuit under the bonnet.

just replaced ignition switch

[boosted_diesel_84]

You've said repeatedly that it will click 2-3 times with the ignition, exactly the same as when you jumper the two connections on the starter, so unless I'm mistaken, you obviously ARE getting power from the ignition to the starter.  It's just not enough to get the starter solenoid to fully engage and get the motor to turn.

at first this was the case, but now it only clicks when bridged with screw driver, but when checked with DVOM i am getting nothing from that wire from ignition.

[RustyCaddy]

One thing I noticed in the post is that you used dielectric grease at some point...dielectric grease is good insulator but electric conducting grease might be what you need.  I started out thinking dielectric grease improved contacts...my bad.  Along with electric conducting grease it is also a good practice to give the connections a shot of contact cleaner spray first (radioshack).

I have used lot of electric conducting grease (available in the electric wiring section of hardware stores) ...especially between the ignition switch and the wiring loom socket connected to ignition switch plus the the starter terminal, the starter ground and pretty much any wired connection.  It really helps as the old connections corrode and loosen up...given the smooth idling charateristics of old rabbit diesels 

And too Zulfiqar...that idea about wiring in a relay to the starter circuit is a really, really, really good one (I'm off to the auto parts place).  It works great for the air blower motor and to brighten up the headlights too.

[RustyCaddy]

Not to hijack this thread but come to think of it, terminal 50 on the starter solenoid functions alot like a relay would???