Blinker/wiper question

[red64chevelle]

Ok, the Jetta is damn near ready for the road.  As soon as this blinker thing and the wipers work, and the downpipe replaced, she is ready for inspection.

So, the blinker thing.  The hazards all work, however, none of the blinkers work.  When they are off, the turn signal light on the dash is lit dimmly.  When I take the turn signal stalk to either position the light on the dash is bright and steady.  Also the turn signal lights don't turn on at all.  Any ideas?

Now, the wipers.  The problem is they don't turn off!  The only way I can get them to turn off is to pull out the relay.  If I disconnect the harness from the wiper stalk with the relay installed, they just stay on.

Damn VW's, like my dad always said,"Nothing major will ever break, nothing minor will ever work."

[blkboostedtruck]

witch year do you have? sounds like you just need a new flasher relay!
Duane

[red64chevelle]

its an 84.  I figured the relay was good, because the hazard lights work.

[blkboostedtruck]

iv'e had that problem before but i cannot remember what i did to fix it?
Duane

[dangerous_D]

Did you ever get this issue resolved?  I'm having the exact same symptoms with the blinkers and my wipers will not turn on.  This all happened after I ripped the dash out and I'm pretty convinced I pulled out a ground terminal somewhere.  Only problem is I can't find it.  I would appreciate any pointers you can give.

Thanks!

[Jettagli16v]

<- similar issue,

but I dont care, as we dont do inspections here,
and every drives like a crackhead anyways...

Grounds are a likely culprit,
I believe there is a star shaped piece riveted to the firewall behind the dash
which should be all of your little grounds from the dash accessories.
Also always verify that your big grounds (like battery terminal and cables) are up to snuff.

-Brad

[dangerous_D]

The car is a 1981 Jetta diesel special edition coupe with A/C (made in Germany).  There is no specific wiring diagram for my car in the Bently, but the wiring appears to match the diagrams for the 1980 Pickup Truck LX diesel.

The electrics worked until recently when my turn signals (both sides) crapped out.  The emergency flashers have always functioned normally and they continue to do so.  During nighttime driving I noticed a dim glow in the turn signal indicator light, which is always present when the ignition is on and the turn signal switch is off.  When I move the turn signal switch to L or R the only effect it has is to light the indicator light in the dash.  A day or two after the turns went out my wipers ceased functioning.  I had the HVAC box out so I don't know when the blower fan stopped, but when I put the rebuilt box in the car for a test yesterday it was inoperative as well.  This all happened shortly after removing the dash, so I suspected I dislodged a ground terminal somewhere.

After many, many hours with a Bently and a multi-meter I'm nearly finished debugging this one.  I checked resistance on all the grounds I could find and everything seemed fine (<1 O everywhere).  I looked for shorts all along the cabin wiring harnesses near where I've been working and didn't see anything.  After more research I pulled out the load reduction relay for inspection.  It was mildly corroded and there was a clear gel-like substance on the terminals (dielectric used by the PO when he replaced the fuse panel?).  I shorted terminals 30 and 87 on the relay panel load reduction socket and I was able to get the wipers to work, but the turn signals and blower motor were still inop.   I reinstalled the relay and felt it click closed and open when I turned on the ignition.  Miraculously, after reinstalling the relay the wiper motor came back to life, but not the blower fan nor the turn signals. 

After studying the wiring diagrams further I convinced myself that all these symptoms could be explained by a low signal at certain places in the 15 or X circuits.  With the keys in my pocket I shorted terminals 49 and 30 on the emerg flasher switch and the flasher relay was activated but not the turn signals themselves, as expected.  By moving the switch to L or R I was able to engage the turn signals.  I checked the voltage at G7 on the relay plate, which is connected to X and the blower motor.  I saw <1 V.  I shorted G7 to 30 and the blower fan worked. 

I've tracked it down to the 15 or X terminal, but I'm not yet 100% sure what is the root cause.  Basically the 15/X signal is too low to operate the A/C relay and the flasher relay.  I don't really understand why the wipers work.  I hope it's the ignition switch or the relay because I sure as hell don't feel like refurbishing wire harnesses right now.

[dangerous_D]

This morning I remade the tests I originally made last night and discovered I made some errors last night.  Given the fact it was late and dark when I made the tests last night I'm not surprised the results were different this morning.

The wipers do NOT work.  Shorting 87 to 30 on the relay plate load reduction socket enables the blower fan and the wipers, but not the turn signals.  The X terminal at the headlight switch is ~10.8 V.  The X terminal at G7 is ~50 mV.  Clearly the load reduction relay is faulty.  I suppose it's possible the relay failed in such a way that it causes the turn signals to malfunction in this manner, but I'm skeptical since bypassing the relay does not enable the turn signals.  I think I have 2 separate problems.  I'll find out later this week when I install a new relay.

Thoughts?

Stay tuned for the final chapter.

[Jettagli16v]

For what it is worth,
I was having the same flasher issue,
with the blinker light in the cluster intermittently dim and bright.
Neither hazards nor turn signals worked.
Then I noticed my hazard flasher switch wiring had gotten off of the switch.
I plugged it back together and all was well.

That probably does not help you at all,
as you are working through the issue like it should be,
instead of anecdotal nonsense that may hit or may not.
-Brad

[dangerous_D]

Thanks for your input Brad.  My problem turned out to be different but your story helped me figure it out. 

I got the x-relay in the mail yesterday and installed it.  The blower and the wipers now function normally.  When I tried the blinker I was disappointed but not surprised to see that my suspicions were correct and it was a problem separate from the x-relay. 

I took a look at my flasher switch and it looked fine, then I thought about Jettagli16v's issue.  He experienced similar symptoms and his problem turned out to be an open circuit at the flasher switch, so I theorized I had an open circuit somewhere.  I checked T15 at the flasher switch and it showed ~30mA.  The ignition switch functioned properly.  I decided to start over and check the fuses, which was the first troubleshooting step I took when the problem appeared, only this time I opened the clear plastic cover and used a powerful flashlight.  Guess what I found.  (This is slightly embarrassing...) Fuse 8 was blown.  It appeared to be in-tact when observed through the lexan cover, but it was obviously blown when I got all up in its face with a flashlight.  It was a bittersweet victory.  Sweet because it's fixed and it was easy, but bitter because I spent two or three hours troubleshooting what ended up being a blown fuse.  Lesson learned.

If your blinkers don't work and the indicator light in the dash is dimly lit with the blinker switch off and brightly lit with the blinker switch on the first thing you should do is get all up in S8's face with a flashlight.  If S8 mocks you with his in-tactness, suspect an open circuit somewhere between T15 and T49a on the blinker switch.