Author Topic: The GTD RETURNS! (Read 94762 times)

Giles@PerformanceDiesel · « **Reply #60 on:** February 12, 2006, 11:07:43 am »

hi guys

the VP44 pump was never the problem it was dodge's design for
the electric supply pump.

they had the supply pump suck thru the filter first and then to the
injection pump. this had the adverse result of burning out the
lift pump and then not supplying enough fuel to the injection pump
that would then make the Inj pump work too hard and burn it out.

the solution was to install a new lift pump/fuel filter kit that we sell
and it pushes the fuel thru the system which is much better. also
the secondary filter is a 5 micron filter from Stanadyne.

this fix should solve the problem of burning out the pump.
i've never seen the head seized in that pump by the way.

giles

therabbittree · « **Reply #61 on:** February 12, 2006, 11:11:11 am »

well the gov swap and waht not you can do yourself if you are clean and take your time..i did it myself and so did joe...as for the vp44 i think if you have a good fuel transfer pump and your fuel pressure never goes below 5psi ..even under a WOT run (use a fuel pressure gauge) then you'll be ok ..its teh people with out a good transfer pump and with out a guage to make sur eit has fule to cool it that make it a sore problem.. ie only a very limited amount of people actually ahve gauges and read them in there trucks or what ever..think of all the box trucks, ambulances and school buses that have these pumps and the drivers ..first they don't have pyro or boost gauges or fuel pressure gauges to make sure they are in the safe zone for the engine... if everybody had th eright stuff an dwatched it i think the failures would about stop..
later
Deo

RabbitGTDguy · « **Reply #62 on:** February 12, 2006, 11:18:37 am »

Quote

who are you using for your internal pump work

Me, myself, and I ... though, I've had a few pumps opened and modified in the past under my belt myself.

It is cheaper than alot of the worked pumps I've seen around and has many of the benefits that the later series VE pumps had specifically for the DI style motors. Larger shaft, more reinforced housing, correctly matched camplate relative to the pump head/plunger, etc...
The smoothness of the power and the power though... very nice like I said compared to any "hybrid" i've seen. I don't have all the fancy equipment to throw it on the test bench, etc. but it is a fairly simple modification to the pump and doesn't involve messing with shimming or tolerances in the bottom end of it goes. The only ideas we are toying with in the bottom and possibly adjustment of the timing advance springs but it hasn't proven "required" yet. Its hard for me as my pump was up and running on my friends Synchro...but I won't be able to really play with it until its done and in the motor to do all the fine tuning to it. Its going to be def. fun though! With the fuel/boost arrangements and the improvement to flow I've made, along with the AWIC ....oye, i can't wait.
Think i'm going to go work in the basement now

Joe

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lord_verminaard · « **Reply #63 on:** February 12, 2006, 12:56:54 pm »

Quote from: "RabbitGTDguy"

Me, myself, and I ... though, I've had a few pumps opened and modified in the past under my belt myself.

It is cheaper than alot of the worked pumps I've seen around and has many of the benefits that the later series VE pumps had specifically for the DI style motors. Larger shaft, more reinforced housing, correctly matched camplate relative to the pump head/plunger, etc...
The smoothness of the power and the power though... very nice like I said compared to any "hybrid" i've seen. I don't have all the fancy equipment to throw it on the test bench, etc. but it is a fairly simple modification to the pump and doesn't involve messing with shimming or tolerances in the bottom end of it goes.

About how many RPM's do you expect out of this pump? I'm thinking that with your piston modifications, that should contribute to some added top end potential but I'm wondering what the pump can handle. I guess at this point nobody really knows.

I will be VERY interested in hearing how this engine drives once it's all buttoned up.

Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49

RabbitGTDguy · « **Reply #64 on:** February 12, 2006, 02:32:09 pm »

That is the one debate about 12mm pumps... the max rpm's at which they can turn before burning up. I've been doing quite a bit of reading on TDIclub and have heard of guys burning them up, etc. on dailys but then some of the pump heads that people are using as well aren't bosch, aren't shimmed properly (at the plunger) and/or are using the wrong springs to assist the 12mm head.
I will be doing the gov. modification to put the main spring in slight coilbind to extend the rpm range of fueling...however, like you said. Its in the dark as far as "how much" it can handle. Part of the reason why I didn't buy a brand spanking new pump right off the bat too... This one, I can do some experiementing with

hillfolk'r · « **Reply #65 on:** February 12, 2006, 11:30:10 pm »

aint got time to post about everything,,but giles is right lose lift pump,vp44 is toast,,,istill get them toasted with good lift pumps though(where i work we are a b+c authorized dealer),,lotta school busses+stuff,it sucks changing a vp44 in a bluebird,,what are people all worried about revving the wee out of it???use a diesel for what its made for,,,, torque down in the basement,,,,,,idont see a need to rev my tdi higher than stock,,whats stock redline anyways,,4700 or so??ok let 'er go to 5000,,,,,,i see no reason for 6k and stuff,, iagree, i think testing is needed on my pump,to get the correct advance curve,,,stuff like that,,i dont even have that int.spring removal trick,,iwanna try that,,,,i remember playing once w/ shims in the adv. housing,its sensitive,,i remember once,,more shims,,and on a rev up,while sitting there,it would misfire once or twice up ot max speed,,well,it neded more advance, iwas just checking,,and it seems a few thou makes a big difference,,it doesnt sound rattly like a diesel withtoomuch advance at part throttle and stuff,,,soci bet it could use more advance,,,, i lengthened the exhaust tonite,at least it ends behind me now,,,ends just before rear beam,with a mild turndown,and wrapped where its under the tank,,i advanced static timing also tonite,,that cured the mild cold smoke,that wasnt even bad,it more burned your eyes,than visible smoke,,my static was at .85,,i made it like .98-1 right in there,,,more testing,,,,,the easypart was getting it built,in the car,and running,,now is the hard part,tuning,,sofar im happy with my investment,,

therabbittree · « **Reply #66 on:** February 13, 2006, 06:25:55 am »

yeah but i think when you are swapping lift pumps your stille putting them in a sucking position...with my dads truck i mounted the pump back in front of the fuel tank so it pushes and upped the fuel line size to 1/2 inside diameter..then i got rid of the banjo fittings and used straight hose fitting..it doesn't pull the pressure down now. I think if you watch your fuel pressure guage it will last..kinda like if you watch your egt gauge your engine and turbo will last longer..
common blake bump that timing up at least to 1.05 or 1.10..its not a sissy engine...i still don't believe you had it a 0.85 ...damn
later
Deo

hillfolk'r · « **Reply #67 on:** February 13, 2006, 11:31:33 pm »

bumped it up to 1 (timing),,,,,now with exhaust,,i hear a li ldiesel,,yea what you did,,way better fuelsetup,,,,,they are$$ but a preporator will give hp,and longer life too,,it removes air before entering the inj.pump.,,,,,hah the boss did a vp44 in a bluebird,,heehee,hope he liked it,,hes about 6 2 250 or so,,,yea he had fun,,,,,i was puttin new head gaskets in a 912,freakin idiots sucked in some caution tape,,whatta mess,,all melted to the cyls,,,drove cyl temps up+poped allthe head seals,well at least 2, but iredid all3 ,,,,pain in the tookus,,, but if heads are resurfaced,,,gotta put ina lead(solder) wire across the piston,bolt on head with norockers,,turnover tdc to crush the lead,,,remove head,measure lead,,,its .039-.050,,,different head gaskets, ranging fromlike .040-.120 in 2-3- thou increments,,theyare always layin in a box too,,unmarked of course,,,,,,it sucks if you gotta do one 3 or 4 times before ya get it right,lol,and we like them around .039,,,,they are surta like a vw aircooled,like metalhead gasket+stuff(for those of you not knowing what a 912 is its a deutz engine,2,3,4,5,6 cyls ive seen,,theyare wired too piston#1 is the f.w. end,,,,,they are air cooled diesel,have individualjugs,,tin all over for cooling air,,,vw's industrialcousin,, i like deutz,,,,i see similarities between vw wheniwork on them,,or its the germanthing,or both,,,,cool lil engines,,be neet to try like a 1012 ina lil s10or somethin,,,oilcooled with cooler integrated on the side,,fan cooled,,,they are neet,when ya have a head off,and look where the "water passages" are,,that isnt water,,thas oil,,,they let oil run thru basically where water jackets would be,,,,,,,,,,,

RabbitGTDguy · « **Reply #68 on:** April 22, 2006, 08:55:56 pm »

A little bit of an update.... ever so inching closer to completion. Waiting on a clutch to arrive next week and for me to finish up the headwork here as its been slow with having to change up the car the motor is going into (found a couple structural problems with the GTD)...but I'm shooting for having the motor ready to drop in by the end of the week. Whether it'll happen next weekend or not...not sure, depends on work, time, etc. as I do rely on the 79 quite a bit for the getting around...

So...some pics....

Here is the 79 I got last fall...currently still sporting its 1.5 NA but doing quite well and is SOOOO solid!

a few before and afters as I transferred all suspension from the GTD to the 79 as well as interior and other goodies to come... including the 10.1 upgrade you'll see in the pics...
Prior to last weekend...

euro bumpers added from the GTD

and as of last weekend after the GC coilovers and bilsteins were transferred to the front with the 10.1 brake upgrade as well...

Has a bit of a high stance in the rear at the moment as I'm waiting to transfer the bilsteins for the rear from the GTD until i get my 200mm drums prepped for going on the car so it can be done all at once. I also added the flares, my centra deep dish rims to the mix as well as the poly bushings one can't live without! The car has totally transformed! Just...the 1.5NA isn't pushing much

So... onto the motor.

Current status...
bottom end complete, studs installed. Mild port match and polish completed to head for most part and I will reassemble probably tomorrow after i clean a few things up.
Motor as it is now...

MK1 diesel modified mount installed...opted for the diesel mount over the gasser unit because of the extra reinforcement and bulk that the diesel mount seems to have vs. the gas one. Plus, i've seen gas ones quite tweaked!

Here is some of what I've had to work with in porting out the G60 intake manifold to accomodate the "D" ports of the TDI. The D ports actually take the manifold out to its limits...if not beyond with the gasket match to the new TDI intake manifold gasket. I've ported out just about as far as I want to go having left myself room to retain the strength of the manifold by keeping a taper to the port which took away alot less material. I still need to finish it, probably an hour or so left in it...but you get the idea. I think for next winters upgrades I'll try and find a SDI manifold or build a homemade manifold using the lower portion of an SDI unit or build up the top of the G60 manifold more to allow more room to port without having to worry about cracking...

as it stands now...some more time left in finishing...

and finally...the mild port and match on the head...turned out fairly well. not alot more cleanup to do...but def. matched to the gaskets and is so much more smooth without going down and affecting the swirl in the port or the bowl. That'll be next winters project along with more fun!

oh yes...and the TDI valves have been so much fun to clean...had to soak for quite a while in the simple green mixture...ready to go though...

So, thats about it for now. Coming along. Will reassemble the head tomorrow more than likely and finishing the intake manifold as well as matching the exhaust manifold. Button top end of engine and finish detailing the pump now that my gov. setup is complete...

In a few weeks....hopefully barking to life!

Joe

TDForNow · « **Reply #69 on:** April 23, 2006, 01:19:53 pm »

Man those early Mk1's wake right up with just a few external mod's. You need to find a Euro GTD grill with the 4" round driving lights to complete the look of a euro GTD! Nice! ( I know a guy here in NH that has a complete one w/all the lights and the core support, but he wants $400 for it, ouch!) I wondered about how the TDI "D" ports would match up to the earlier manifolds. This confirms it, man those top corners get REALLY thin, dont they? What other options do we have besides tring to source an SDI manifold from the other side of the pond? Wicked nice work so far!

RabbitGTDguy · « **Reply #70 on:** April 23, 2006, 02:32:46 pm »

Thanx for the comps...

Your right...very little clean up the MK1's. Though, just the other day now i found an MK2 jetta coupe sitting down the road (gas) that a guy wants $400 OBO for... I'm tempted (just thinking about how the rabbit will handle the power of the TDI) but can't bring myself to go away from MK1. It did clean up quite nicely and its kinda rewarding for it too. Found it for $100 last fall...brought it home, fixed the brake lines, replaced a few odds and ends as well as the alternator with one i got from Jake and it has treated me great all winter long, 140miles per day and still getting around 41mpg. Just isn't that fast

I plan to keep it and redo it in its OEM color here next winter unless the ideal 2 door comes my way... i only seem to have luck finding nice 4 doors though. Doesn't look it from the outside but where it counts, down in under, etc. this one is almost flawless...

As far as manifold choices....with the D port they are few and far in between. You can go with the TDI or AAZ intake manifolds as they all have D ports. Alot of guys with TDI daily drivers upgrade to the PD130/150 intake manifold which is slightly larger but is still a very short runner unit. You could always hack and plenum a TDI or AAZ manifold, but still you have the sharp turn at the bottom which doesn't represent alot of benefits in the first place and then there is the task of lengthing the runners of it ....

Now, as far as counterflow manifolds the G60 and the MK1 GTI one (or CIS units for that matter) are on the correct inlet side for what I was looking for but the amount of material that can be removed from the manifold to accomodate the D ports is pretty much the same. I don't have a Fox manifold or a Audi 5k manifold (which you'd have to chop the extra runner off of ) to compare too...but I imagine they are similar as well. Supposedly of the counterflow manifolds the G60 unit and the audi 5k flow the best. My thoughts were that maybe next winter I'd build up the top portion of the manifold with and aluminum weld, smooth it back out...plane the gasket surface and further port it out to the D shape. Its pretty damn close now though, and probably as far as I'll go. The taper I did in the port keeps the strength of the manifold intact without distorting the shape of the runner too much and still gets the "d" port in there for the most part. We'll see how it runs...

Ulimately...I'd like to find a lower portion of an SDI unit or the early entire 1 piece SDI manifold (like Simon used on his motor orginally www.centralvwaudi.com i believe). D ports stock. The advantage with the 2 piece one would be that you could add your own custom plenum to the top rather easily...or, a thought that I had pieced previously but just couldn't see spending the $250 for the lower part just for experiementing was modifying the lower portion of the 2 pc. SDI intake manifold to a MKIV style 2.0 crossflow upper portion. I suspect that clearances with the injection pump LDA on mTDI's could occur there though.

So for now...thats what I have and am running

Joe

hillfolk'r · « **Reply #71 on:** April 24, 2006, 12:55:44 am »

i should have snapped a pic of my modified tdi intake while it was apart,,,,i cut off the intake about 1 inch of the manifold,just enough to connect a hose,than massivly ported it and smoothed it out,,you may be able to see it in the blowup pics i posted,,i never liked the 90 bend on the stock 1.6td intakes bolt on stub ,too much of a choker, it can be improved....

TDForNow · « **Reply #72 on:** May 01, 2006, 01:42:22 am »

Quote from: RabbitGTDguy

Thanx for the comps...

As far as manifold choices....
I don't have a Fox manifold or a Audi 5k manifold (which you'd have to chop the extra runner off of ) to compare too...but I imagine they are similar as well. Supposedly of the counterflow manifolds the G60 unit and the audi 5k flow the best.
Joe

I've got (still in the cars) manifolds from a Mk2 (Golf) 8v CIS-E and a (Audi) 2.3 5 cyl CIS from an '88 Quantum. I don't think i could use the Mk2 in my Q, the plenum is angled toward the driver's side, which would put it into my battery-shelf. But by just looking at the 5 cyl manifold, it does look bigger in the runner diameter and another "pro" to the 5 cyl one, it's got the cold-start assist injector in the plenum :!: . How perfect is that set-up for water-meth injection

:twisted: ?!!

hillfolk'r · « **Reply #73 on:** May 01, 2006, 10:44:04 pm »

sweet,hey update, i have been tuning the water injection,,my egt was going up slightly using straight blue washer fluid,ive been cutting that 50-50 with water..now it cools down the egt now, like they say it does,and i still feel it kick in.. feels the same power wise..i bet thats what took out the turbo,excess heat,and overspeeding it to the moon!!theres tons of meat to take out of those tdi intakes isnt there??i saw the pic,basically it looks like what i did,i took out a bunch above the port in the intake,and made the ramp into the port(in the intake)bigger/smoother to match up to the port,,basically,you want a "port" sized/shaped hole all the way up the manifold runner,look in an intake,its better to see what i mean,it looks good man!!!get 'er goin! you are gonna love it!!!

TDForNow · « **Reply #74 on:** May 01, 2006, 11:51:57 pm »

Hey I just had a brain storm

(EVERYONE DUCK!! :shock: :shock: )

:?: Couldn't you re-index the mounting holes a little lower on the non-TDI manifold flanges by either "oval-ing" them on a drill-press and fab in a couple of locating pins with corresponding receivers in the head (or if your really good... I'm not) filling them in and re-drilling them lower to equal out, top AND bottom, the material removed for port-matching?

:?:

If this sounds good, how much do the mounting holes need to move? :wink: