Author Topic: MY ABF set-up  (Read 23686 times)

Reply #30March 13, 2009, 04:49:04 pm

jtanguay

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MY ABF set-up
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2009, 04:49:04 pm »
is it just me or does that look improper?  the alt should have 180 deg of belt contact, and its missing the tensioner.  (disregard if im pointing out the obvious  :lol:)

because this car doesn't have A/C, i think that the crank sprocket is mostly fine.  again the driving habits/style will be the ultimate deciding factor in the crank nose failure.  winding the motor out to 5k and then putting the car into neutral, or hard shifting will cause most of the damage.  the fact that 1.9 AAZ motors have been known to go 300,000km or more with the 'bad' non TDI sprocket leads me to believe this.

at andy2's place, i saw an ALH with the crank nose failure as well.  it was interesting that he mentioned the later models came with a smaller slot  :roll: and i've seen a post with a TDI crank failure as well, so the alternator clutched pulley really is the REAL fix, unless you drive fairly gentle.

so just drive the car as you would normally, and enjoy the serp setup.  if you really want the TD swap, you'll need to drive that thing pretty hard  :twisted:


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Reply #31March 13, 2009, 06:30:52 pm

ashleyroe

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MY ABF set-up
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2009, 06:30:52 pm »
Quote from: "jtanguay"
and its missing the tensioner.  (disregard if im pointing out the obvious  :lol:)


haha, let me tell you that spring is badass, it was so easy to tension it was crazy. i'm really happy with the way that all came out and definitely no one around here, or atleast the very very few with diesels have anything that clean as an upgrade.

Quote from: "jtanguay"


unless you drive fairly gentle.


oh, i'll be a wuss with this car, not like the 52 hp is anything for me to play with anyway  :roll:

Quote from: "jtanguay"

so just drive the car as you would normally, and enjoy the serp setup.  if you really want the TD swap, you'll need to drive that thing pretty hard  :twisted:


haha, this car will only get driven maybe twice a week and to shows. thursday night gtg's and on saturdays or sundays. i will most definitely enjoy the setup and the car all together.

Reply #32March 13, 2009, 06:37:25 pm

ashleyroe

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MY ABF set-up
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2009, 06:37:25 pm »
Quote from: "libbybapa"
I was wondering how you dealt with the 4th bolt for the bracket as there is no casting in the 1.6 block to accommodate it.  


we didn't use the 4th bolt for that reason.

Reply #33March 13, 2009, 06:45:25 pm

ashleyroe

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MY ABF set-up
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2009, 06:45:25 pm »
yes, the bracket has a special hole for this spring and the alternator has a notched spot underneath for the capped size of the spring and the pressure from the spring pushes the alternator up and keeps tension on the belt when adjusting. on the bottom is the long slot for the screw to keep it adjusted.

i sourced this picture from google.
this is a underneath shot.
bracket on left spring in the middle putting pressure on the alt.



this is another shot (courtesy of google) so you can see the actual hole in the bracket for the spring.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/vwovw/VW/motor23.jpg

Reply #34March 14, 2009, 03:14:16 am

wizard-of-od

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MY ABF set-up
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2009, 03:14:16 am »
Sorry,
I only now found the time to respond.
Quote from: "libbybapa"

How about this, why don't you waste your time "proving" that the standard keyway and unclutched alt pulley don't increase the odds of crank nose/sprocket failure.  Maybe VW just updated the designs because they were bored?

I have no way of proving that without running an engine on a dyno for 500+ hours of constant abuse and HOPE that it would replicate a failure scenario.As for WHY VW updated the design of the keyway? Maybe because they updated the design of the entire bottom end running less accessories on a serpentine set up and more on a toothed belt set up?

Quote from: "libbybapa"
That would be downright childish and a waste of my time and money.

No need to waste your time and money then.A simple phone call would have fixed that and they are currently out of stock of said item :wink:
 
Quote from: "libbybapa"


Why do all VW factory rebuilt 1.9 IDI motors come with the updated crank nose and sprocket?  Did they replace all of the crankshafts as a fashion statement?

And yet they went into chassis's with non clutch alternator pulleys.Apples to Oranges comparison.I am not talking about the crankshaft snout nor do I care about it.
Quote from: "libbybapa"

Well, I guess that's half the point that has been made.  VW did the equivalent of double pinning the crank by updating the sprocket keyway and yet did so without the effect of weakening the nose that double-pinning would have.

What is your explanation for the massively increased proportion of crank nose/sprocket failures with the 1.9 idi motors as opposed to the 1.6 idi motors which otherwise share the exact same crank nose and sprocket interface?  How do you explain the similarly proportional decrease in failures in engines fitted with the updated crank sprocket and freewheel pulley?

"proportional decrease". "massively increased".You speak as though you are the voice of millions of IDI/TDI users around the globe.

I have had a brand new AAZ crate motor from VAG in my warehouse and the alternator pulley was no different than the aluminum unit I sell.Infact spend 5 minutes on ebay and you will see that most of the TDI's sold in Europe came equipped with a non clutch alternator pulley and these ranged all the way up to 2.5 TDI's!

http://cgi.ebay.de/Lichtmaschine-VW-Passat-3-TDI_W0QQitemZ370101455428QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutoteile_Zubeh%C3%B6r?hash=item370101455428&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.de/Lichtmaschine-VW-T4-Transporter-LT-2-5-TDI-90A-NEU_W0QQitemZ370168078121QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutoteile_Zubeh%C3%B6r?hash=item370168078121&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.de/lichtmaschine-v6-tdi-akn-vw-passat-3b-3bg-audi-a4-a6_W0QQitemZ180335515977QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutoteile_Zubeh%C3%B6r?hash=item180335515977&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

I have requested from 4 friends who are VW/Audi certified tech's a TSB from VAG stating that they have updated all non clutch alternator on TDI motors to clutch units AND they have updated the crankshaft gears.None of the 4 could provide me a TSB with anything even close.I know you run a business and I know you are just trying to get your point across but understand my point of view.If Volkswagen saw this as a serious issue they would have recalled all motors and fixed the issues like they have done in the past with other engine models and no offense but I would trust a VAG Engineer over you  :wink: .
Unless you can show me a TSB from VW/Audi stating otherwise then you are simply drawing your own conclusions based on observations rather than facts.

Quote from: "libbybapa"
I'm curious why the pulley in the posted setup is deemed better than the stock AAZ pulley.  They both appear to be similar in mass and both are harmonic dampening pulleys.  I would add that the later 1.6 motors also had dampening crank pulleys with the v-belt system.

Andrew

Nowhere did I deem the 06A pulley "better" at all? The 06A pulley is easier to source new and has a smaller diameter than the AAZ unit.FWIW I use the AAZ pulley on my own personal motor....


Quote from: "Vincent Waldon"
The fact that one of the participants in this discussion has a vested commercial interest in the outcome is new information... cool !! :wink:

Of course I would have a vested commercial interest.How can I not?It is a product I developed and I stand behind it like all the other products I develop.Lets be a little fair shall we? If you were in my shoes you would be doing the same.How would you feel if a customer that bought a product from you told you that your product was in laymans terms "***".There have been crankshaft snout failures all across the VAG board and most are not even on diesel motors!!
One of the services that my engineering firm offers is the ability to machine ANY part to within 0.0001".If I wanted to integrate a clutch pulley into the set up I would have and still can but the reality is that there still is not enough evidence TO ME that a non clutched alternator pulley will cause catastrophic engine failure.

Quote from: "ashleyroe"

i was just alittle confused why a "great" seller like INA (wizard of od) was posting this set up all over the diesel forums without mentioning that it would still cause crank failure.

Why would I mention that my set up would cause crank failure when that is simply False and UNPROVEN.
Quote from: "ashleyroe"

secondly, his customer service abilities make me question his mechanic abilities or even knowledge.

 :roll: ....and then people wonder why I write FAQ's/tech threads.Please do not ever question my mechanical ability as I find that rather insulting especially on an open public forum!
Quote from: "ashleyroe"
on the bottom is the long slot for the screw to keep it adjusted.

The Screw does not keep it adjusted....the screw FIXES the alternator to the bracket.The belt is tensioned by the spring and then when the belt is tensioned you tighten the screw.So how does the screw or spring provide tension to a FIXED system?
Simple answer - it does not.
Quote from: "ashleyroe"

I would have sent out the right spacer right away and let her keep the old one and gave a discount on the belt too. but that's just me.

I asked both Kevin & you to give me a measurement!!
I am still waiting for you to provide this which you have not done.I have been NOTHING BUT cooperative in this matter....I am not sure what more you want me to do?
I cant send you a correct spacer if I do not know which crankshaft gear you have and I am certainly not going to let you keep a part that you do not need.They are about 4 different versions.

Look it is clear alot of us got off on the wrong foot and I am here trying to correct this but some of you are not making this easy.I apologise if I am coming off to strong but I feel as though my posts are falling on deaf ears.
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Reply #35March 14, 2009, 07:46:00 am

ashleyroe

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MY ABF set-up
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2009, 07:46:00 am »
Quote
The Screw does not keep it adjusted....the screw FIXES the alternator to the bracket.The belt is tensioned by the spring and then when the belt is tensioned you tighten the screw.So how does the screw or spring provide tension to a FIXED system?
Simple answer - it does not.


you may have read what i wrote wrong, or maybe but i typed it wrong, but yes that spring does provide tension.... ONCE.

it provides tension when you let the alternator back up after putting the belt on, and then you tighten the screw which makes it a fixed system.

at this point you're just looking for stuff to argue about.


Quote
Quote
ashleyroe wrote:

i was just alittle confused why a "great" seller like INA (wizard of od) was posting this set up all over the diesel forums without mentioning that it would still cause crank failure.


Why would I mention that my set up would cause crank failure when that is simply False and UNPROVEN.


well, yes. exactly i was asking that question... which is the reason everyone posted on here and i got an answer.

everyone was saying that you were awesome and know a ton. so i asked them why this is still an issue then... and if it is an issue does he know because hes not posting it.

Quote
It is a product I developed and I stand behind it like all the other products I develop.Lets be a little fair shall we? If you were in my shoes you would be doing the same.How would you feel if a customer that bought a product from you told you that your product was in laymans terms "***".


what? you invented the ABF?

i never said your product was ***. i wouldn't have bought it if it was.
every part of this setup i have is amazing...

all i said is your customer service is because you never got all the information from me in the first place to send me the correct parts! and now you want me to send you back the wrong spacer you sent me. well, the day you send me a prepaid envelope to send it back in i will. you're the one who made me unhappy with your service and lack of professionalism.


ps:
Quote
I have requested from 4 friends who are VW/Audi certified tech's a TSB from VAG stating that they have updated all non clutch alternator on TDI motors to clutch units AND they have updated the crankshaft gears.


kevin is a vw/audi certified tech.

Reply #36March 14, 2009, 12:31:22 pm

Vincent Waldon

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MY ABF set-up
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2009, 12:31:22 pm »
Thanks everyone for your particular perspective.

It does appear that we're in pure back-and-forth mode on this thread, with little hope for any new info to surface.

Let's call it a day on this one, before we turn into the Vortex.
Vince

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2001 silver TDI Jetta Malone Stage 1.5 , 2001 blue TDI Jetta SBIII 216s Malone Stage 3, 1970 Bay Window bus

Gone but not forgotten: 1969/1971 Beetles, 1969/1974 Westies, 1979 Rabbit, 1986 TD Jetta, 1992 gas Jetta, 1994 TD Jetta

 

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