Putting a mk2 cluster in a mk1

[kaneb]

Quick question.

Have a couple issues.  I have rough schemtics for putting this thing in so im doing a bit of guessing and trial and error ha.  So the tach works good, fuel gauge and coolant gauge, glow plug light is good, turn signal alt/battery light is good.  
My issues right now are. The coolant light blinks, the oil pressure light still have to get it figured out.  The dash lights dont come on with the head lights they shut off, high beam blue dash light on with low beams, and off with high. Also nothing at the clock.  I'm wondering if it's ground issues i'm having, wrong wires spliced in.  Maybe since its mk1 sensors and mk2 cluster reads it differently? Anyways ill get it figured.

Im hoping i can get everything in this cluster to work as it originally did in a mk2.  
 

Kane

[NastyNate]

Can you put up any pictures please of the wiring maybe we could troubleshoot this together because I will be taking on this task tomorrow.

[kaneb]

its warmed up hope to get back at this today.


Nate--ill try...maybe write up my schmetics for you.  as long as you robbed a cluster out of something the same year as i did.  

You know what year your cluster came out of?

Kane

[blacknoise]

Hi Folks:

I did this swap a year ago (85 JettaTD cluster in 81 RabbitD) and it succeeded but my issues where related to the Bentley Manual mis-representing the wire positions in the mkII harness(es).  I traced the pins around the back of the cluster and got everything straightened out ok.  You may have to do the same with some of those idiot light issues.  They are probably wired up incorrectly.  I found the the coolant level sensor in my TD cluster didn't read the sender in my engine.  

I was amazed at how well the cluster "locks" into the rabbit dash!  Those side pins brace against the dash's brackets and there are no screws required in my case.  The little tab on the top edge of the cluster presses up the on the dashtop modling and pressfits the cluster in to it's seating.  I had to use force to get it in there but it seats very well.  I found that the left-hand cluster harness interfered with the steering column support but there were only three of four conductors going to it anyway and when the harness as "chopped" down it fit well enough.  Also the mkII style speedometer cable's "socket" (to fit the mkII speedo) interfered with the Rabbit' frame behind the dash because the cutout for the speedo cable didn't line up quite right or didn't give clearance.  I cut a notch out of this framing with a sawzall and that was that.

Also, the mkII clusters are designed for mkII final drive ratios (3.66 or 3.94) with a proper toothed speedo pinion.  If you are using a 3.89 R&P box, you're mkII cluster shouldn't read right.  Conversely, if you have a newer mkII 5sp box in your RabbitD, your stock cluster shouldn't read right.

My alternator didn't have a W terminal (it is a reman Bosch, Motorola-style alternator).  I simply installed one into the alternator and a wire to carry it back to the clkuster.  You can see the six diodes through a slatted cooing cutout in the back of the alternator so I poked a soldering iron and a wire in there to connect a pigtail to one of the nodes between a set of opposing diodes.  This node is one of the the stator coils.  This is what a W terminal is normally connected to inside.  With that, the tach works and the dynamic oil pressure warning system works because I have an AAZ engine with two oil pressure switches.

Also, I hooked the hand brake switch to the shift-up light.  The brake warning light is in the cluster on an '81 so is not provided elsewhere.  With no shift-up relay in my car it was a no-brainer to splice that in.


So that is some of my experience.  I wrote a nice schematic for this swap, but that was how I wired it the first time before I discovered the Bently current flow diagrams were giving me back pin positions.  I never made an updated schematic after that, I think.


I recommend this swap if you have the time screw with all these things.  The mkII look is much more refined and the tach rocks even if it isn't totally accurate due to belt variations.  It's pretty close anyway.

-Brendan

[regcheeseman]

There's a couple of ways to get the gasser tach to work...

- build yourself a sensor reading the IP pulley - I think Vince has some instructions out there somewhere
- buy a Dakota Digital tach converter - it reads the 'W' terminal on the alternator and outputs a gasser-like tach signal

There is a third way, convert the gasser tach to W terminal input. Works a charm

[88jetta350]

There's also another way...

Full CE2 Swap!  :twisted:

[kaneb]

Thanks guys.  Still in the midst of playing around and have some other things on the go.  I was hoping to just buy a new speedo cable...or will that not work from what i read?
blacknoise- if you don't mind would be nice if you could throw up a schemtic of hows is or a pic just so i can see how route.  Even though your cluster is different being an 85.

Everything is pretty much operational except i have to figure out why the dash instrument lights work fine when the car is off and i turn on the head lights, but as soon as i turn on the key the instrument lights go out.  After that i have a couple more things to play with and i shall be on my way.  Just finishing up some interior pieces for the car and it will be going all back together and back on the road.

Kane

[kaneb]

There's also another way...

Full CE2 Swap!  :twisted:

I read about that somewhere on vortex.  Thinking maybe i should have one that and based my whole car off a mk2...re-wire everything.  Maybe eventually.

[Rabbit on Roids]

how much harder is it swapping in a CE2 cluster? i want to take the cluster out of my 92 jetta and put it in my rabbit. im pretty sure the mounting will be easy if he said it kinda just kinda presses in. modifying the cable holes behind it is a no brainer also.. but what about wiring up everything? it only has one plug from what i understand (ce1=2 plugs, ce2=1 plug). i dont have access to a bently. but i did find a decent diagram for my jetta online and printed it out. would wiring diagram from a chilton be worth looking at? or is it not gonna have a detailed instrument cluster portion?

[88jetta350]

There's also another way...

Full CE2 Swap!  :twisted:

I read about that somewhere on vortex.  Thinking maybe i should have one that and based my whole car off a mk2...re-wire everything.  Maybe eventually.

That's the route I'm going. I will try and take all the pictures I can of the swap, and do a write-up on it.

[Rabbit on Roids]

yea, no thanks.. i like my car, but not that much. the wiring in it right now works too good to justify taking it all out. its the first VW ive owned without wiring issues. and besides its not gonna be anywhere near plug and play. unless you did a full mk2 dash swap. is that possible?

[kaneb]

Oh it's totally possible.  Just a bit of work involved.  If you have the wiring diagrams and the tools to alter the dash mounting go for it.  I've seen mk4 full on interiors in mk1's alot of alterations though.

[88jetta350]

yea, no thanks.. i like my car, but not that much. the wiring in it right now works too good to justify taking it all out. its the first VW ive owned without wiring issues. and besides its not gonna be anywhere near plug and play. unless you did a full mk2 dash swap. is that possible?

I think you're making it sound harder than it really is. A MKII Dash swap is not needed.

Have a look through this:
http://www.selenengineering.com/xCE2Conversion.aspx

this swap used mk3 wiring, but if you were to use mkII wiring, it should be much simpler.

A majority of the wires are the same color, so splicing in the mkI connecters, switches, lights, etc. should be pretty straightforward. Just approach everything patiently, and have mkI and mkII bentlys handy.

[blacknoise]

KaneB- what model/year car do you have and which mkII cluster are you using?  I have the mkI Diesel Bentley in front of my and I can scan you the current flow diagrams you need.  I also have an mkII Bentley for the cluster pinouts.  I can get those out today.  I will consult my schematic I still have for my swap and send them, but it is outdated due to some incorrect pin designations I was following (against my instincts of wire color)

-Brendan

[kaneb]

KaneB- what model/year car do you have and which mkII cluster are you using?  I have the mkI Diesel Bentley in front of my and I can scan you the current flow diagrams you need.  I also have an mkII Bentley for the cluster pinouts.  I can get those out today.  I will consult my schematic I still have for my swap and send them, but it is outdated due to some incorrect pin designations I was following (against my instincts of wire color)

-Brendan

I got a rough schemtic it was hard for me to see though through vince(thanks vince) But had a hard time making some of it out. So yeah it might put me ahead of where i am.  83 Rabbit is a 1.6 NA which i made a TD.  the mk2 cluster is out of a 1990.  I couldn't find a wire to match up to the mk2 J243 which is part of my problem.  The other is the instrument dash lights...which could also be a fuse since i think i did short something out blowing a fuse.

But yea maybe someone else taking a look would be able to make some more sense of it as well.  That would be awesome.

Thanks--Kane