Post-Secondary Edumacation

[TDIMeister]

The final decision has to fall on your own shoulders... sorry.

But if you'd fast forward about 9 years, you'd be about where I am today from 1995, the year I started my higher education.  At that time, I had a computer business of my own.  Modest, but profitable, I generally had fun with it...

That's not what I want to focus on, though.  After finishing my first degree and having now worked in industry for 5 years, I'm itching to go back to school, because I don't feel my capabilities are being utilised and my ambitions realised to their fullest potentials.  It's a dreadful, sinking feeling at 28 that if I were to follow the current status quo of my life, I would be on a course to do the same type of job for another half of my life, till God willing, I can hopefully retire comfortably at 55  

Many, many others will not share my outlook.  They're perfectly satisfied to slog at their desks or workstations for 30-odd years of their useful careers making admittedly good money every two weeks like clockwork, all the while wasting away their dreams and talents on average 50-hour work weeks and desperately looking but struggling to ignite some passion in what they do for half of their waking lives.  And when they're old and their bodies and brains are spent, they get tossed out like an old shoe disguised as a retirement party... all the money you've toiled for and put away since the days of your youth thinking you can enjoy it in your retirement is met with a rude awakening that in your old age you fall into mundane daily routines and the things you've wanted to do all your life you no longer have any interest in, or your deteriorated state of health prevents you from doing them.

Yeah, I paint a bleak picture, but that's not the life I want for myself.  The money will come in time to those who apply and make something of themselves.  IMHO, self improvement by means of an education is an investment that will pay dividends beyond the $dollar signs$ and you can never have to much of it.

Jeez I sound like such a NERD!  

[RAMMSTEIN]

Jeez I sound like such a NERD!  

While you are 100% right, you do sound like a nerd.... :lol:

[Blades]

@ TDIMeister: You and I think alike

Might disapoint a few of you. Dropping out of university for a year.

I needa break and well, let's just says the teachers that are going the classes next semester aren't the best ones. (There's one, many student want to beat the crap out of him ..... 0.68/4.3 average last semester for his classes ... he's in charge of the entire math/CS/biology complex .... he's untouchable)

Rant complete.

Don't worry, I'll go back.

I have spot for 2 other diplomas.

[BlackTieTD]

The final decision has to fall on your own shoulders... sorry.

fully agree dave. that's what i tell other people "you need to do it for yourself to be successful"... i've seen too many friends waste their time/parent's money on school only to drop out because they are not interested.

thanks for the input guys... thats what i was looking for, just a little commentary. dave, you're even more cynical about the mundane 9 to 5 life-long routine than even me!!! good to see  :lol:

i once had a sociology teacher, one of the best teachers i've had, much respect for him, who proposed a different system to the one we endure now. the government subsidizes your retirement BEFORE you work. you get 10-15 years of 'retirement' to enjoy the good life, travel the world, do all the things you want, then you work until you're old and grey paying it off (paying toward a fund for the next generation). sure there are huge complications with this type of system and it will never happen, but i've always kept that in the back of my mind as a 'wouldn't it be nice' sort of thing.

so i'm sitting here with a signed acceptance letter... i need to drive it in in the next 5 hours.

really, if i try to simplify it all.. it comes down to money. i've been waiting for this damn raise for almost 2 years. when i thought "enough is enough, i'm applying for school" i never would have thought that the next business day after i get my acceptance letter my boss would give me the raise. its like i've worked this long for this raise, earned my way here, now i'm going to throw it all away now that i'm here  :?

i've made a mistake before leaving a very well-paying job to go back to school and i've always regretted it (was very well-paying at 19 years old, better money than i make now even with the raise).. but that was to go to school for something i was already fairly competant in... i found out that school just bored me to death.

engineering is something completely fresh and new for me. i read the course schedule and even though a lot of it in the beginning is mundane fundamentals of math and science... i look forward to taking on the challenge for some reason. i've designed and built simple things all my life... 90% of the time i don't have the knowledge/means to go as far with this as i would like... i feel like an engineering program is the missing link.

..but do i throw away all that i've worked for so far and start fresh? what if i find out after a semester or two its not for me and wish i had my job back?

i guess this is why i'm having such a hard time with it. uncertainty..

ultimately though i think i will be kicking myself if i dont at least give it a shot...

going to have another meeting with my boss in a couple hours... maybe that will sway me in a definite direction. i'm 80% sure i'll be driving this form up to guelph today........

[TDIMeister]

Heh, I don't need some government system to support that kind of lifestyle... I'm already doing it today...  While I'm certainly not advising this to anyone, I long made a decision NOT to throw all the eggs of my life's efforts and resources from today into the basket of an uncertain future.  Heck, I may not be alive or otherwise present on this Earth tomorrow... ("Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow, we die..." -- I actually don't live according to that doctrine, even if what you read may seem to contradict this).

Admittedly, I'm pretty steeped in debt... I don't own real estate, and don't plan to for a while longer -- it's just my observation with people around me that once they buy their house, it's like a ball-and-chain and a black hole from being able to do other things...)  But... I have gone on at least two major trips in each of the past 5 years, and I'm never sitting still.  I figure, do it now while I can... My passport is full to the brim; later this year will be my 4th trip to Europe in 5 years; I've been to Mexico 3 times, 2 cruises in the last 2 consecutive years and Malaysia (my birth country) another two.

And I have ZERO regrets.  The experiences and memories gained from those travels will stay with me forever.

Realise your dreams and your passions... because the reality, well, sometimes, sucks.

[BlackTieTD]

acceptance letter is in... now i wait and see what the big-wigs say about my continuing to work here part-time, or if they will replace me outright. out of my hands now!

..if they replace me, i'm thinking about resurrecting my business for some part time coin. here is a site i just finished for a friend in the UK...

http://www.g-werks.com

[TDIMeister]

acceptance letter is in... now i wait and see what the big-wigs say about my continuing to work here part-time, or if they will replace me outright. out of my hands now!

..if they replace me, i'm thinking about resurrecting my business for some part time coin. here is a site i just finished for a friend in the UK...

http://www.g-werks.com

You should get in contact with a good buddy of mine.  He's the brains responsible for sites like these:

http://ibeetle.com/flash.htm
http://www.shounin.com

[Staley]

I have been thinking of doing the same thing BlackTieTD.
I was in school for Aerospace Engineering..when the aerospace industry was really booming (93-95)
then for some insane reason I decided to stop.  I am happy with my decision.. I always wanted to own my
own automotive shop.. and here I am 9 years later doing what I wanted.
I have never had an office job before.. and several of my customers say that they can suck.  I have been
contimplating going back to school in the evenings and finishing the degree. I am 30 years old and run an auto shop..
and have a 2 year old daughter.  The only thing that is
keeping me from doing it.. is the lack of time that I currently have and the lack of time that I actually get to spend with my daughter.
It has been a real tough decision to make and i'm still undecided.

[lord_verminaard]

Black Tie- I'm sure that you wont regret it.  Congrats on your acceptance!


Meister- I agree with you 100%.

I'm sorta in the same situation.  I graduated from college in 2000 with a double degree in computer science and music.  So what have I done wth it?  Squat.  Like some of you, I made more money during my summer jobs between college than I have since I graduated.  I moved to Baltimore, MD for a while, my girlfriend lived there and I thought being closer to the city would help out, but all I did was work at a VW dealership in the parts department and deal with all of my awful co-workers.  So now, I moved back to my small town in Ohio, (with my girlfriend, thankfully) and I have no job- I have even applied to the local Lowes store just to get a paycheck but they arent even hiring.  Now that the computer industry is completely flooded, I probably dont stand a chance getting in somewhere against people who have 15 years of experience on me that got layed off of their other job with the last recession.  Oh, and I'll be paying college loans off for 12 more years...  I have been contemplating other career options but I'm 26 years old now and I dont have a clue what else I would do.  Going back to school for something else is nearly out of the picture because there is no way I could afford it.  I really wish I would have studied what I really loved in school (theater/music), then I would have had more fun, had better grades, even if I end up in the same position I am in now.  Especially since my computer degree didnt teach me jack about computers, everything I learned, I gained from experience.

If I had all the money in the world and time to do it, I'd build a garage, and restore first generation Camaros for people from the ground up, with a one year wait on build time.  None of this monster garage seven-day build crap.  

But, like Meister said, I try not to worry about my debts too much, and make the most out of what I've got.  You never know when you wont be here anymore...

Good luck with school, Black Tie.  

Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v
00 Camaro L36 M49

[BlackTieTD]

just stepped out of the bosses office not 30 seconds ago.. their decision is to hire a fulltime person to replace me outright. nothing personal, just that my job is sort of complicated, and will just continue to get more involved and they need a 9-5er here for meetings, working with the rest of the team, etc....... still, i'm kinda bummed out.  

..at the same time though, its a weight off my shoulders. i might be a little lighter in the pocketbook, but at least now i will definitely have more time to focus on my studies... and hopefully have some spare time to tinker with the cars and other projects on my mind. there is so much to do beyond the 'life-goal' stuff... beyond money, i think i'm better off overall without the baggage of my current job, even though i will only benefit from my hard-earned raise for about 3 paychecks before i start classes on sept 7.

Black Tie- I'm sure that you wont regret it.  Congrats on your acceptance!

Good luck with school, Black Tie.  

thanks!!  

the computer industry took a huge dump, thats why i've been fighting for this raise the entire time i've been here. computer skills are expendable now... but its hard to find people that really are good at what they do, and who have been doing it since before the 'computer job fad'... i would like to think that i am one of these people. at the same time, you can only sit at a computer screen so long before your only desire is to claw your own eyes out.

music is another of my great passions... there are a lot of times i have enough work on my plate for 4 people, but i'll play drums for a good 2, 3 hours because sometimes thats all i feel like doing.  :roll:

I am happy with my decision.. I always wanted to own my own automotive shop.. and here I am 9 years later doing what I wanted.
I have never had an office job before.. and several of my customers say that they can suck.

you're doing what you want, what else can you ask for eh!   i think you made the right choice. yes, office jobs are not cool. i actually took a break from the office routine and did some entry-level automotive and factory jobs for about a year at a huge paycut, just to get my headspace back to where i am now. without that break i wouldn't be sitting in this cubicle right now.. thats for sure.

I have been contimplating going back to school in the evenings and finishing the degree. I am 30 years old and run an auto shop.. and have a 2 year old daughter.  The only thing that is
keeping me from doing it.. is the lack of time that I currently have and the lack of time that I actually get to spend with my daughter.
It has been a real tough decision to make and i'm still undecided.

all i can say about that is, nothing is more important than time spent with your small developing children, in my humble opinion.

You should get in contact with a good buddy of mine.  He's the brains responsible for sites like these:

http://ibeetle.com/flash.htm
http://www.shounin.com

clean work   i'll keep them in mind...

[TDIMeister]

just stepped out of the bosses office not 30 seconds ago.. their decision is to hire a fulltime person to replace me outright. nothing personal, just that my job is sort of complicated, and will just continue to get more involved and they need a 9-5er here for meetings, working with the rest of the team, etc....... still, i'm kinda bummed out.  

Sounds to me that the door is open for you to go solo...  That might be more fulfilling for you anyway, plus YOU choose your hours

Edit: PS -- you might have answered this before... what is it that you do?

[BlackTieTD]

some good news on the solo front... the www.g-werks.com site will be featured in an upcoming issue of PVW magazine, with mention of my freelance label void design + development ( http://www.voiddesign.com ).

my current full-time position (completely seperate from what i do with void) is as a web developer for CAA, the Canadian Automobile Association. i am the designer/developer of the CAA Mid-Western Ontario club website.

i've been waiting for an opportunity to redesign their website (there is a lot of room for improvement as they say). the canada section i did a couple months ago looks alright.
http://www.caamwo.com/canada
http://www.caamwo.com/canada/map.jsp

[BlackTieTD]

i'm still struggling with this major decision...

today is the 11th. the 12th is the deadline for tuition payment or they'll give my spot to someone else...so i can still back out.

question for all of you... and i think i already know what you'll say... but i'd still like some opinions...

in your experience... have you found it is better to take a loan for school... then pay off said loan after school is complete vs. saving all the loot beforehand? what i'm getting at is... i'd like to save up 100% of the money for all 3 years before i even start the program... then i am debt-free. but, that means toiling away another year at a job i really dont like to earn that cash. on the other hand... my starting salary as an 'engineering technologist' should be roughly what i'm making right now (the average starting salary for graduates of my program in 2001 was $2,500/yr less than what i make right now..i hope i will be on high side of average).

so it seems like a good idea to just bite the bullet, go to school... if i run out of cash, i get a student loan and pay it off later.

..but when it comes to actually signing my resignation and making a full-time commitment to school... it doesn't seem that simple.

any thoughts appreciated... i'm just thinking out loud here.  :?

[TDIMeister]

There are advantages to borrowing for school, chief of which is that the loan is interest-free for the duration you are registered as a full-time student, plus I believe a 6-month grace period after you leave your studies.

I'm no financial advisor, but minoring in economics taught me to appreciate the concepts of "opportunity cost" and the "time value of money".  Say tuition costs $5000... you have a choice to spend that out of savings you have, or get a loan interest-free.  If you do nothing else, you can borrow $5000 interest free and your $5000 in savings could earn interest or capital gains if invested (then again, you can just as easily lose that money...).  Or you can spend that $5000 from your saving , which represents an opportunity cost because those funds are not available for other uses.

But as long as you're hours away from the deadline, aren't you a little late to be asking this question?

[BlackTieTD]

oh of course i'm a little late. how else would it be??  :lol:

believe me, i haven't just left this decision to the last minute on purpose... i've lost a lot of sleep over this and i've flip-flopped on direction several times.

wondering dave... you say i can get an interest-free loan. as far as i know, the only option for interest-free is through OSAP which i am not eligible for. can't give you a reason why i'm not eligible.. i've filled out an application on 3 occasions and always get a result of '$0'.  :?

is there another way to get an interest-free school loan? i was under the impression that the banks give you a favourable interest rate, but certainly not interest free.. and no 6-month grace period. but i could be wrong.