Author Topic: Post-Secondary Edumacation  (Read 38508 times)

June 11, 2004, 01:54:44 pm

BlackTieTD

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« on: June 11, 2004, 01:54:44 pm »
i've been humming and hawing over going back to school for a couple years now... at 19 i put myself through a year of digital media arts training and decided school wasn't for me. in an unskilled or relatively simple field, sure... you can hack it on your own and figure things out... if you're real good you can get a job without that diploma. as is the case with graphic and web design... my current occupation. simple, boring, blahh.. been doing it about 7 years now and i'm ready to move on to something 'grander', and so i spent a lot of time pondering future careers and the education i'd need to get me there.

i've really had my heart set on the best of the best, i guess i'm a perfectionist, and i wouldn't settle for anything less than University of Waterloo Mechanical Engineering Degree program... i've been told the best program of its type in north america. for the past year i've persued a couple correspondence math classes to get me ready, and i've been saving my nickels to make tuition..

well, research has swayed me. i've always been an advocate for college for the hands-on experience it affords, as opposed to the theoretical knowledge gained at a university. the exception to this rule would be doctors, lawyers... and i thought, engineers. everyone is telling me now that i'd actually be better off going with a program like that offered at Conestoga College, a 3 year Mechanical Engineering - Design & Analysis Degree program with 3 co-op work terms. the university grads find jobs, get good pay, but i'm told its the college grads, around here anyway, that are heavily sought after, especially in the automated manufacturing industry in this area which is surpassed really only by japan's. "college engineering grads get the job done" they have hands-on experience that the universities can't teach is what i'm hearing, and it makes sense.

i spent a good hour with the program co-ordinator of this program at Conestoga this afternoon and although i've had that buzz of excitement for the past couple weeks as i've become more and more sure about this decision, now add the reassurance of increased knowledge of the program, and my future career options... and the choice for me is clear.

i've just finished my ontario college application and submitted it. i'm going full-throttle at this and hoping for an admission to the program for the sept '04 class, start date under 3 months away.

i'm really looking forward to this and had to share.. i know there are a lot of clever engineering minds on here! i feel like this is the missing piece of the puzzle for me  :)



Reply #1June 11, 2004, 02:33:58 pm

type53b_gtd

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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2004, 02:33:58 pm »
Congratulations on your decision Lanny - you can never go wrong with pursuing more eductaion.  And I think your direction is dead on the money - a good hands-on college program is more likely to land you a job sooner than an engineering degree would.

Drew

Reply #2June 11, 2004, 03:35:29 pm

TDIMeister

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Re: Post-Secondary Edumacation
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2004, 03:35:29 pm »
Congrats, Lanny.

I will see you at the GTG next weekend and would be pleased to discuss any questions you may have about the field into which you are entering.  

We should also have another UWaterloo Mech. Eng. (1991) grad attending.


Cheers,
Dave
UWO B.E.Sc (Mechanical) -- 2000
P.Eng. this year...

Reply #3June 11, 2004, 03:50:08 pm

TDIMeister

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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2004, 03:50:08 pm »
Quote from: "type53b_gtd"
A good hands-on college program is more likely to land you a job sooner than an engineering degree would.


I had interviews in 4 different countries and multiple job offers BEFORE I even graduated.  It's not degree vs. diploma; it's what you do with your education, how you position yourself, and how you conduct yourself before prospective employers -- and of course the climate of the job market at the time -- that determines whether you get hired, and in the field of your choice.

Reply #4June 11, 2004, 05:47:20 pm

cheng

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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2004, 05:47:20 pm »
you go girl :lol:

its really hell to get older and wish you had had more formal education under your belt.

good luck.  I'm sure you will excel in whatever you put your mind to.

ken
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Reply #5June 11, 2004, 06:28:12 pm

Dr. Diesel

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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2004, 06:28:12 pm »
you made a post without any reference to diesel or vw.

THROUGH THE SPANKING MACHINE WITH YOU!

ps. good.
I repair, maintain and modify VW's and BMW's.
Good work done at affordable rates. Welding and fabricating, too.
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Reply #6June 13, 2004, 09:13:10 am

BlackTieTD

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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2004, 09:13:10 am »
thanks for all the support fellas!  :D

TDIMeister: looking forward to speaking with you at the GTG... barring natural disaster or rabbit failure, i'll be there! i agree with what you are saying about its not degree vs. diploma.. its what you do with it, and i think that the program offered at conestoga will give me the tools, experience, knowledge, etc to help me succesfully present myself to prospective employers. at the end of the 3-yr program, if i want to, and feel the need for, continuing with a university program, there are a couple schools that will let me right into the 2nd last year of their programs, so it will be an additional 2 yrs in university to get a degree, if thats the way i go.

lmao doc. subtle  :lol:

thanks again everyone.. i appreciate the support.  :)

Reply #7June 17, 2004, 10:36:57 am

Blades

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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2004, 10:36:57 am »
Even if I'm in Quebec, I prefer College over university due to my own experience (and experience of a few close friends too)

The teacher at the college I attended also gave the master's degree classes at Université de Sherbrooke. We basicly got the same classes, same documents and everything.

After 2 years at UQAM, I haven't learned a new thing. Some 3rd year classes are actualy easier than what I did my first year in college ...

I all the way for college over university.

Can't wait to do my master degree. I'll use my old documents from college :)
 :roll:

Reply #8June 17, 2004, 11:34:51 am

TDIMeister

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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2004, 11:34:51 am »
I agree with Blades, that in many cases, a practical college Engineering education is more useful than a University degree if getting a job is your end objective.  Heaven knows I complained endlessly while at school that what we were being taught was too theoretical and out of touch with the real world.

Strange thing is, having worked in industry for over 4 years now as a Designer (I'm not legally allowed to call myself an "Engineer" yet in Canada) in the engine field, I am finding a love and niche more and more for theory and theoretical research.  That said, I have always considered -- and am getting serious about -- continuing my education with a doctorate in Germany.

I think mine was a very fortunate case.  To expound on my earlier post, back in 2000, while in my final year of University, I applied to and was invited for interviews with Cosworth Technology in Northampton, England, and FEV Motorentechnik GmbH in Aachen, Germany.  Cosworth is famous for their Motorsport achievements with Ford, but the engine development division was separated from the motorsports group, and each is now part of Audi and Ford, respectively.  FEV was heavily involved with VAG in numerous engine programs including the original VW Diesel and later TDI. even the latest V10 TDI.   Many of the company's executives have some ties and history with VW.  I cited Peter Hofbauer in another post, and I'll also mention Peter Walzer, who co-authored a book with Ulrich Seiffert, former head of R&D at VW entitled, Automobiltechnik der Zukunft (Automobile Technology of the Future).

I travelled to Europe in June of 2000 for those interviews, having just finished the last of my exams and not even having gone to my convocation yet, which was in October of 2000.  I went for a second interview with FEV's North American Technical Center in Auburn Hills, Michigan; got an offer and worked with the company between October 2000 until the beginning of 2003.

I know I would NOT have gotten these opportunities without the combination of my University degree, internship experience, and research thesis (I won an award on my project entitled "Reduced Emissions and Enhanced Performance in Internal Combustion Engines by Injection of Hydrogen Peroxide").  I'll try to post the abstract sometime if anyone's interested.

Anyway, I'm not trying to make a University-is-better-than-college argument, because my position would be biased and I also have the utmost respect for most people who graduate out of both streams (although I also have a fear if some of my graduated colleagues ever designed a building or bridge...  :shock: )  IMHO, a college education prepares you for a specific vocation / skill / career-path.  A University education teaches you critical thinking, formulation and knowledge synthesis skills should you want to go outside of your immediate field of training, or want to take the next steps in your education.

Keep in mind that in Ontario at least, under the guidelines of the Association of Professional Engineers, generally only graduates from an accredited University Baccalaureate-degree in Engineering can become "Professional Engineers" and get a P. Eng designation, analogous to a Chartered Accountant (C.A.) for an accountant and in like manner a lawyer earns an "LLB" designation and be called to the Bar.

I am in the process of applying for my P. Eng as I type  8)


Cheers to all,
Dave

Reply #9June 17, 2004, 01:17:35 pm

fspGTD

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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2004, 01:17:35 pm »
The best lesson from advanced education is learning how much you don't know.  ;)

(FWIW, I'm currently in a professional MBA program out here at the Univesity of Washington.  Got about 1 more year to go.)

Good luck and congratuations with the program Lanny!
Jake Russell
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Reply #10June 17, 2004, 02:04:44 pm

TDIMeister

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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2004, 02:04:44 pm »
Quote from: "fspGTD"
The best lesson from advanced education is learning how much you don't know.  ;)


I agree wholeheartedly.  The more I know, I more I know how little I really know.  :P  :D

Reply #11June 27, 2004, 12:25:26 am

RAMMSTEIN

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« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2004, 12:25:26 am »
My advice to you is to finish whatever you start.

I'm missing 2 classes to graduate from Dawson College in Mechanical Engineering.

No employers want somebody who has not finished his degree, remember that.

Learning the hard way here.... :cry:
Rammstein

In abscence of light, darkness prevails.

Reply #12June 27, 2004, 11:41:29 pm

BlackTieTD

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« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2004, 11:41:29 pm »
thank you, excellent advice. thanks for all your input.

i've always looked at this as "all or nothing" and thats a big part of the reason why it's taken me this long to re-apply for school... i want to make sure i'm ready for the long haul... 3yrs at least, maybe 5yrs of school.

TDIMeister: still looking forward to talking to you about all of this.. i saw in another thread there should be another GTG before the end of summer.

i'm working through the sample math problems they gave me to get ready for the entry exam on wednesday, the test looks harder than i thought it would have been. i havn't worked through math problems like this in 4 or 5 yrs.. time sure flies! its been too long and i'm pretty dull at this stuff... radicals, trigonometry... wow, back into all of this.  :?  :lol:

Reply #13June 28, 2004, 08:42:41 am

TDIMeister

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« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2004, 08:42:41 am »
Hey, if you need a tutor... I'm making a serious offer! :)

Reply #14June 28, 2004, 08:50:22 am

TDIMeister

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« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2004, 08:50:22 am »
Quote from: "RAMMSTEIN"
My advice to you is to finish whatever you start.

I'm missing 2 classes to graduate from Dawson College in Mechanical Engineering.

No employers want somebody who has not finished his degree, remember that.

Learning the hard way here.... :cry:


Rammy,

Somehow I thought that you had already graduated from your program.  Donno whether you have plans to return and finish your diploma under different circumstances.  Well, you have your reasons, and I wish you the best.

I have made the decision that if I get an acceptance, I am making the big life-changing step to go back to school and pursue a doctorate.  Except this will be done in Germany, and it could be a very long term commitment that means I will be a student (and living as such) until well into my mid-30s  :shock:   That means giving up A LOT that I have gained in my last 4-5 years working in an already very well-paying career.  But if money was my sole motivation, I would have made many different choices with respect to where I'd position myself... life is too short to be anything less than absolutely happy with what you do, and to realise your dreams and life's pursuits.  OK, that enough philosophising before I start to get teary eyed...  :D

 

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